Great interview with Gerrard van Es - Page 2

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by apple on 30 April 2019 - 10:04

Valk,
It seems you are often equating drive with weakness. And the idea of a sport dog vs. a working dog or a real dog is bogus. You simply have to look at the individual dog. Certainly some lines and dogs don't produce the traits required for a good working dog, but just because a dog excels at sport doesn't mean it doesn't have the traits to make a good working dog. This is definitely a very old article. I remember reading it years ago. When he mentions how most Americans want pedigreed/registered Mals, that might have been the case when this interview was done, but there are many people in the states with non FCI Dutch Mals/Mal X's. Also, the comment about the police not liking Mals is dated. I will say, as much as he praised the quality of Gento, the video of him isn't that impressive to me.

by duke1965 on 30 April 2019 - 11:04

have to agree with apple on that, the video is not showing what he was supposed to be, but the guy bred multiple nice malinois and german shepherds, thats a fact, for the rest, opinoins are just that, opinions


emoryg

by emoryg on 30 April 2019 - 13:04

Here’s a picture of my Gento puppy.  I was around a few of the male dogs out of Gento.  Even gave the old man a bite or two in his old age.  The dogs I knew did not stop.  My experience was they had unbelievable drives, brutally hard and not good for the first time handlers.  They were not handler aggressive, but could be difficult to reel in if given too much slack.  Made good police dogs and had no problems taking to the street bite.  Never saw any one hit wonders, fashion designers or tag and drags from that line.  They felt comfortable and confident on the bite.  I did test a Gento son (litter mate to mine) who was a personal protection dog.  He choked in his own house. 

My Gento puppy almost had it all.  He was full of drive, desire to work, hard, fearless, gained momentum on corrections (no hurting that dog’s feelings), dominate, super nosework, etc.  The only thing he was missing was good hips.  My heart sank when the vet came back in the room saying he wanted to reposition.  No positioning could help and the SV graded him as mild HD.  I doubted he would have held up well after running thousands of practice drills like tracks, area and building searches.  Not too mention having to run hundreds of actual calls.  I sold him and he ended up doing interdiction work and if I recall, was still busting bandits after his tenth birthday. 

The littermate who started blowing in his house had great hips, but he had a weak ear.  It was not flopped over, but would bend while moving, like it was waving goodbye.  I saw a few of those from Gento as well as a few other bad hips. 

Hmmmmm   Having trouble uploading photo.  Will try again later.  


BlackMalinois

by BlackMalinois on 30 April 2019 - 14:04

 

 


Good interview some good points and again only talk about the males this one of biggest mistakes
with all that GSD breeders the infuence only from males , Quality GSD females are hard to find (my opinion what is real quality) that has a reason.



 

 

 


by ValK on 30 April 2019 - 16:04

apple.
sheesh, nowhere i mentioned drives or compare sport vs. work. i only said about Gento's video - i don't like that jumping attitude and that such behavioral pattern had become desirable in today's sport breeding.
below video of Gento's father Robby in similar environment.
unfortunately poor quality but still be seen quite different conduct.



by apple on 30 April 2019 - 17:04

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3EGu5-o9B4&t=29s

Here is a link to the winner of the 2018 WUSV. Do you think this dog has weak self control or is over excited?  He is judged as one of today's top sport dogs.  I think the dog and his training show exceptional self control and a high level of drive that is not hectic or over exciteable.  His barking is strong, confident and rhythmic, which reflects strong active aggression to me, which is desirable IMO. 

I can't get the link to work.  You can Google Qvido Vepeden 2018 IGP World Cup Winner.  Maybe a moderator or someone else can fix the link.



by ValK on 30 April 2019 - 22:04

i found Qvido video, you mentioned.

preping was done with goal for precision in every move and act but seems you didn't notice how unnatural that dog act.
particularly noticeable at the end how dog's behavior did change, when exercise finished.
i don't liked how Gento was acting. but he did it naturally albeit becomes overexcited in anticipation of fight. his dad Robby acts much better and naturally as well. in both dogs i have no doubt about their civil guts. but i didn't saw or feel any sort of aggressiveness in Qvido.
you see, dog's aggression, desire for engagement into fight is quite more than just dog's bark tone.

 

 



Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 01 May 2019 - 06:05

Interesting exposition on working stock. Two things I noticed, one of which 'bugs' me: Firstly that Van Es says he's always chosen to breed with "West German working lines" - please note, he's not obsessing about the values of 'DDR', I find that very interesting in the light of the recent topics on here.

Secondly - and this is the one that I objected to - he, like others, talks about the "cookie cutter" nature of the black&red SV dogs.  Well if you are Showing for Breed Conformation compliance, of course the dogs are going to look quite alike.But nobody ever proved that how a dog looks is how it can work.  And has anyone taken a long hard look at all those dark sables videoed or pictured on Trials fields ?  You cannot easily tell them apart until you know them, anymore than the cookie-cuttered Show dogs.


by duke1965 on 01 May 2019 - 10:05

just looked at the quido video, see no indication of agression whatsoever, I see a really well trained sportdog performing a top routine, nothing more nothing less

 


BlackMalinois

by BlackMalinois on 01 May 2019 - 10:05




The video Gento was made in 1996 Gento was born in 1985 so he must be around 11 years old
that helper was not an oficial KNPV helper, Gento haven,t done the exercises for many years
this can explain Gento don,t show his best performance.





 


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