Is it ever "too late" to turn a BYB pedigree around? I'm probably opening a can of worms here, but I really just want to see what other GSD people think.
For example, my dog came from a BYB (we did NOT do enough research prior to our purchase). The last approx. 3 gens do not have health testing, and the dam had OFA prelims.
We fell in love with the breed and have considered the idea of breeding Zeppelin (would like to find a venue to title him in). He passed his temperament test, and I have done some health testing (DM clear, HUU clear, MDR1 clear) and would have OFAs done if this is the route we chose to go. He could produce family pets and possible sport dogs, he is not a working dog.
Or do I learn from my mistake, and not breed him?
No need for rude comments; just wanted a discussion about this, because I am genuinely curious on other's thoughts.
If you "toss" out his pedigree and look at his health tests, temperament, and his structure you can decide if breeding him is the best. You've already gone above what a BYB would do. Only you can truly decide what's right. You know him best. Most will tell you that there are enough "so so" dogs being bred and way too many in rescues. Leading the real question of What better value to the breed standard can Zeppelin offer? No one really knows, not even you. From looking at the gene-pool and options in this breed, honestly, I wouldn't breed him, regardless of tests, etc. It's not that he's not worth having pups. If you breed him, it will only be to your benefit, not the breed. You must also keep in mind, what are the owners of his pups going to do with their pup: breed and breed carelessly? You must think of the future too.
I hope this helps,
Don’t understand why you think back yard breeding .he looks a nice healthy dog . Decent Head good bone which is sometimes harder to get in a black. Passing health tests . Not much ipo in pedigrees but if parents Are healthy strong and looked after . Titles Never really changed my mind on a dog I bought if everything else is correct . But I do need health checks up to date . Would I breed him only u can make a call on that one is he confident Strong nerve good drive balanced Clear in his mindset all questions u need to be sure off before Considering i could go on but u get the gists .
I think a GSD should be bred only if he is likely to improve the genetics of the breed and this pedigree is not going to do that. Even though most dog breeders of all breeds breed for pets, I don't think that should be the case with GSDs. But it is your dog.
Personally, I would not breed him. He’s a beautiful dog with nice substance. And I’ve seen super dogs without titles and a few not so great dogs with titles, I won’t say titles mean the world but it does help show some proof of working capability. I promise you, the back generations show up in current progeny. So any temperamental/structural flaws or unknowns can and will show up in puppies, even if he is a wonderful and stable dog himself. Plus you’d only want to breed a nice female right? It would be better to breed a nice, breed worthy female to a proven and accomplished stud. (That’s the beautiful thing about owning a good female, you can choose a good male to do stud service, you don’t have to own one).
The boy you have is nice, I would use him to learn how to train, go to events and familiarize yourself with the breed first. Then if you really see yourself breeding, look for a nice female and go from there. I have to agree with Apple, I also believe a shepherd should be a working dog.
all depends on your goals.
if you looking to produce pet type dogs just because you like of that dog - nothing could stop you.
if your goal is above that, then you need to have good experience in breed to make your mind in regard of worthiness of use particular this or that dog in breeding.
after all even most famous dogs did come from somewhere with no name.
as mention above, titles are secondary. average and even weak dog can reach podium with good trainer. but would that dog be good in real life circumstances? also keep in mind - not all, even strongest itself dogs, did become potent producers, able to pass own qualities to majority of offspring.
He looks like a nice dog but I would not breed him. As others have said there are already too many pet quality GSDs out there. Even good Working and show litters will often produce some pet quality dogs that dont make the cut for higher purpose. GSDs were not meant to be bred with the intention of creating pets
Also it will be very hard to find anyone other than BYB that would want to breed to him. There are tons of really nice titled males out there with known solid pedigrees that don't get bred, so your dog would have to have something very special (titles or working ability) to get a decent match.
If you do decide to breed him I'd suggest training him to do something that involves taking him out in public to test his nerves outside of his comfort zone (maybe you already do this). Get involved with a sport or club, you'll meet experienced breeders who may be willing to mentor you. He could have extraordinary working abilities that could contribute to the breed, but you'll never know til you test him.
If you get to the 4th and 5th generation, there are a lot of good dogs in the pedigree. They are from a wide variety of lines though, Czech, DDR, American, German Showlines. Some of my best working and family dogs came from mixed pedigrees like this, but unless you have long term breeder goals you're probably not going to be as successful as you hoped. It's unlikely that he will be used for stud by anybody with a nice female, so you'd have to have your own to get you to the next generation. In the experience I had with my own dog, I didn't consistently see what I wanted until I hit the 3rd generation, but there were also a lot of successful sport/working dogs in there, and for those that didn't make the cut to move forward with, their families love them and are happy to have healthy dogs from health tested parents. And don't expect sport or working people to be interested in buying the pups, chances are they will all end up in pet homes. If you want to move forward you'll have to hold a dog back yourself and put all the effort in, a female is your best bet, and then when she's ready to breed find a compatible stud with a nice pedigree, so you start filling in the gaps with quality dogs. You'll have to do more legwork in the pedigree research area, and be prepared for surprises to pop up. And doing some kind of titles help show that your dog is capable of learning and working with you as a partner to earn a title in whatever venue you choose.
Something I ask people when they inquire about using one of my males for stud...I simply ask "What is your goal...What are you wanting to breed for"...Meaning...Show dogs...Working Dogs (Police...Service...?) Sport...Personal Protection...Pets...etc...What...I've gotten answer like I want to breed for it all...people need to think what they're gonna do with the puppies...If you sell them to people who are looking for a certain purpose and they aren't worthy of that...then those puppies may end up in the Humane Society...
You should ask yourself (since you know your dogs better then everyone else)...Can I make puppies that can fulfill a need/service or are they just Pets...There's nothing wrong with a Pet but you want the puppies to be able to function both physically and mentally...
What type female are you going to breed him to? Do you know what can help produce good dogs?
A "BYB" isn't just someone who breeds in their backyard but someone who just breeds to sell and make money and doesn't really care about the Health and ability of the puppies...
So knowledge is what is needed...Please take your time...Learn the Pros and Cons of your dog and what you'd like to produce...
Thank you everyone for the insight! I think it is indeed wisest to not use him for breeding, do more research, and make more informed decisions on my next dog.
I have learned a lot about the breed in the past couple years but certainly have much more to learn!
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