What causes this working difference? - Page 2

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Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 29 December 2018 - 20:12

Yeah, sorry Bladeedge: I should not rely on other posts to identify where a term comes from, should I ?

Personally I'm inclined to agree with Hexe.
bladeedge

by bladeedge on 29 December 2018 - 20:12

Hund pretty much said what he said just put my personal experiences in it 😉

by apple on 08 January 2019 - 18:01

I don't think there is any relationship between drive and nerve. There are dogs with very good prey drive and some have great nerves, some have weak nerves and then there is everything in between. Just like there are dogs with very low prey drive and good or weak nerves. The answer to the OP's question is simply a matter of the dogs' prey drive. Prey drive is more complicated than some people realize. It has thresholds as other drives do, it extinguishes sooner in some dogs and never in other dogs. Possessiveness is an element of prey drive that can very. A dog's level of frustration aggression is a factor. But I think to say the dog with less drive for the ball is likely to be more balanced reflects more of a bias of the poster than the reality of the dogs' motivation.  I also disagree about the comment about a dog not having to be in drive to work.  All decent dogs are working in drive or an overlapping of drives.  It is just less apparent in low drive dogs.  Or the dog is just working to avoid punishment, which is not a very smart way to train.

by ValK on 08 January 2019 - 19:01

what drives are involved when dog run, bark, sit, walk, sniff, crawl, eat, looking around, jump, etc.?
BlackMalinois

by BlackMalinois on 09 January 2019 - 09:01

 

A not so great ball drive dogs will not say the dog is not a good working dog  so many dogs so many drives both will have different skills.


Have owned  great working dogs who have not so great ball drives

Have also owned very well balanced dogs with great ball , metal, hunting drives who can easy switch in second, crazy prey or ball drive have nothing to do the dog is NOT balanced.

 

by apple on 09 January 2019 - 11:01

Valk,
It depends on the context the behavior is displayed. With running, the dog could be in prey, hunt, defense, or the dog could be in avoidance/flight if running away. I am referring to the context being, training a dog to perform a set of behaviors/tasks. Of course, there are times when a dog just feels like running. But that is not training because a dog inherently knows how to run. With barking, the dog could be barking in prey or defense. He could be displaying territorial aggression. Or he could have been taught to bark on command, which is simply a learned behavior. Barking varies a lot in dogs and communicates different things, including their emotional state or what drive they are in. With walking, if you are talking about a focused, competitive heeling, food and prey drive could have been used to teach the behavior. If the dog is simply walking, again, the dog just might be walking because he inherently knows how to walk. It is not associated with training. Some people actually train their dogs to prance more in a focused heel marking and rewarding with food (food drive) when the dog raises his feet higher. Being able to train this behavior often depends on the structure of the dog. It has no real functional purpose, but it is trained with some dogs. Sniffing, crawling, looking around could involve hunt drive. Jumping is often taught using the dog's prey drive.
I'm guessing your point is that dogs are not always in some type of drive, especially low drive dogs. They can still be trained. But what is their motivation to learn? Praise and petting can be reinforcers, but they will usually not get an intense display of behavior. I understand that different people prefer different types of dogs. My preference is not a low drive, defensive dog.

by ValK on 09 January 2019 - 18:01

i asked because noticed how often people here do bind every nuance showed by dog to this or that drive.
that's not exactly what it is. it more depends on dog's temperament. dog can have temperament, which vary
from very low to hyperactive, with not necessarily drives involved.

by apple on 09 January 2019 - 18:01

My view is that canine behavior is very complex and you have to accurately define traits and drives in order to best train a particular dog and problem solve. To me, temperament is a very broad term that is made up of thresholds, drives, traits, nerves, energy level, etc. Low energy and hyperactive only tell you a little bit about a dog. A dog can be hyperactive and have strong drives or low drives if the hyperactivity is not really directed at anything. A low energy dog might have a high defensive drive. So I don't think you can tease out drives from temperament. But I agree that everything a dog does is not associated with a particular drive.

by apple on 10 January 2019 - 12:01

http://wildhauskennels.com/temperament.htmHere is a link to a good article that has be online for years.

by ValK on 10 January 2019 - 16:01

apple
So I don't think you can tease out drives from temperament. 

did i said anywhere that drive derives from temperamental level of energetics of dog?
that more about rationalization, which can be seen in closest relatives of dogs in the wild.
if jackal, coyote, wolf don't pays attention to throwed ball or stick, does it mean they have weak prey drive? absolutely not. its only shows their rationalized set of mind.  they wouldn't chase thingy just for sake to chase thingy, till they fell of their feet . their prey drive kicks in only when necessity arise.
and yet, useless, irrational behavior, intentionally developed through selective breeding, proudly promoted by breeders as a perfect working predisposition of dogs.



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