american members - Page 9

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by joanro on 28 October 2018 - 15:10

,, And when the riff-raff move in the decent move out and all that’s left are poor examples of the breed ,,,,


The person in the thread, " this add!!!" Would be your " riff Raff".....bet that person does not "feel comfortable"

So you are implying members such as Duke on here is riff Raff because he does not adhere to SV dictatorship...and so therefore, according to you his dogs that he breeds are " poor examples of the breed"?

You seem to have a real control freak mentality and if you don't get your way, you disparage everyone who does not abide by your demands, and you do this with absolutely zero proof that " all that's left are poor examples of the breed".
Tell us....have you seen in person every dog owned and produced by all the members of pdb who don't abide by your demands? So, since the answer is NO, then you are making up a lie about all the members of pdb.


Rik, you made my point that dogs from SV breedings come to the USA with zero restrictions...so there is NO such thing as " limited registration" with SV. LR is, indeed, an AKC thing.

Prager

by Prager on 28 October 2018 - 16:10

Joan:
You seem to have a real control freak mentality and if you don't get your way, you disparage everyone who does not abide by your demands, and you do this with absolutely zero proof that " all that's left are poor examples of the breed"."
............
LOL here we have case of pot calling the kettle black.


by joanro on 28 October 2018 - 16:10


Prager: You seem to have a real control freak mentality and if you don't get your way, you disparage everyone who does not abide by your demands, and you do this with absolutely zero proof that " all that's left are poor examples of the breed"."
............
LOL here we have case of pot calling the kettle black.




Certainly not,, pragre, being as I am advocating no limited registration for my buyers.
I don't demand how anyone selects dogs to breed, nor do I dictate who anyone should buy from. I also don't disparage other people's dogs nor the puppies they sell....it's not my business.
The other person, however, believes that even pdb should restrict who gets to put their dogs into pdb, and that anyone who does not do as she demands ( only abide by SV rules and only sell with limited registration) are nothing but riff Raff and have "nothing but poor represntatives of the breed."
So you would, according to your friend Ruger, fall into the category of riff Raff who only owns and produces poor representatives of the breed....and I don't agree with her characterization of you nor of myself nor breeders such as Duke...
I personally don't care what Ruger breeds, nor how she sells her pups.
I do, however, object to her disparagement of all who do not abide by her demands....it's that simple.

PS, your " tag- team" played out by you and your friend, ruger, is so below you....stand up and act like the advocate for quality dogs that you brokered to me 14 years ago and the progeny from me which you have complemented in the highest way...chosing to own some of the dogs I've bred!

None of which had limited registration!


1Ruger1

by 1Ruger1 on 28 October 2018 - 16:10

Rik~ thank you for the response. My first WGSL was purchased from a BYB many years ago and she was very adamant about only given us a LR and had many many rules and stipulations.
I never really understood at that time why, but being more unknowing then I am now I never questioned it. He died suddenly at 11 month old from a heart defect, and had other health issues that I believe were passed along from his sire.

Anyway, my last two GSD were both purchased with full registration and both, have been from pedigrees meeting all health and temperament standards, titles, yadda yadda ,,, and for the most part both males reflect that.

So, I understand your point about LR and my fiancé doesn’t share my over zealous concern with regard to LR either, lol but I still believe it’s the most responsible and safest way for a breeder to ensure that the right things are done with their pups ,,,😊

Prager

by Prager on 28 October 2018 - 17:10

it is not helpful to compare SV and AKC LR because one is mandatory - thus it may work, while other is voluntary and as such it could be misused for personal reasons. While I agree with Ruger that LR could be a good thing, that is if it would work as intended which would be to curb dogs which are not meant to be bred. But, I do not think generally this idea ended up to work the way it was intended that is as a protection of the GSD from idiot breeders. Meaning the reason people issue LR is not to preserve the breed but because most issuers of LE think that they have something special and do not want other people to have it. Thus, in other words, issuers of LR, for most ( not all) parts, it is a business - anti-competition - decision rather than decision based on "preserving of GSD quality ". Thus that way it may actually work against the GSD breed quality. That is if someone has something special then they should love their breed so much that they would allow others to breed it and thust hey would promote such quality.
Personally, when I am selling a pup, I ask people if they want to breed the pup. If they say yes then I ask them to send me the pedigree of the dog they want to breed and then I see if such dog should be bred - like hips record and so on and to and then I match such pedigree with the correct pedigree of a pup I am selling them. If their dog is not suitable for breeding and they want to breed anyway then I'll offer them to buy matched pair. Personally, I am confident in our pups that I am not concerned with competition. Most are copying us at best. I have realized that because you can not keep the man down if he has a strong desire to do something, thus I am here to help them do the right thing. If I would tell them that I will sell them pup only with LR or not sell them a pup at all then such a person is going to go somewhere else and breed anyway - probably some lesser dog then if he would use my recommendation.
If we would use SV mandatory rules and all dogs would have to pass certain tests in order to get breeders to do the right thing by the GSD then that would be a different story. But then the question is who decides what are are going to be the rules. I think SV rules suck and because they are mandatory they are directly leading to a destruction of the breed.
My solution: let public vote with their dollar.
For that, my solution would be to have a private organization who would evaluate dogs. This evaluation of dogs would be voluntary but breeders would like to have such evaluation because it would attest to certain quality their dog has..
This would be a test of suitability for breeding same as SchH was in the early days. No point would be awarded only pass don't pass. The dogs would be tested in the performance which would stem out of GSDs standard.
Dogs who passed such a test would be a desirable parent of the pups which one is buying. Dogs who would not pass would not be desirable parents. Public then would vote with their dollar for the pups from parents who passed the test.
Ehhhh Maybe I am naive....


by joanro on 28 October 2018 - 17:10

Pragre: . I think SV rules suck and because they are mandatory they are directly leading to a destruction of the breed.

Same thing, essentially that I stated.

I disagree that one cannot compare SV with AKC per limited registration. Once untitled dogs and puppies are shipped out of Germany, or other SV controlled countries, nothing prevents those dogs from being bred without SV rules.
As for limited registration " curbing" breeding...any unscrupulous person will breed the dog using ckc reg. Or breed and sell without papers...there are hundreds of adds for gsd pups being advertised with ckc reg or " no papers".
I have sold only one young adult dog for breeding...a male and he is producing well.
When I place young adult females, I spay them before they leave me...I do not trust that the new owners will not " accidentally " let her get bred. And these young dogs, are always OFA' d by me...every single dog I have raised out of my litters has had passing hips and elbows with zero evedence of hd...so I don't place them because they are " crap", or because they are " poor representatives of the breed".
I raise them to see what I have produced health wise, temperament wise and breed quality wise. I have not ever placed a young dog because it was an inferior representative of the breed.

1Ruger1

by 1Ruger1 on 28 October 2018 - 18:10

Joanro ~ I enjoy the PDB and do not wish to be run off due to the poor character and ill manners of members like you. I am choosing to ignore you because I believe you are provoking me to that end. Don’t address me with the expectation of a reply from this point forward because I will no longer engage with and your nasty baiting drama.

I am not even viewing the contents of your posts any longer so refrain from addressing.  I’m all for the freedom to speak but I don’t won’t be baited and drawn into your bs any longer.

You dear in my estimation are a good example of a poor representation of the human breed. Move on and I’ll do the same.

 


Western Rider

by Western Rider on 28 October 2018 - 18:10

Listen up if you think someone is making a dig to you be big enough to ignore it, don't show how low you can go by responding. If you do not respond then all they can do is keep digging at you and that is called baiting and they will be dealt with.  If you keep responding then all involved will be dealt with for, back and forth crap.

There can be no fight if there is only one in the ring.


by joanro on 28 October 2018 - 19:10

Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up@western.


by joanro on 28 October 2018 - 19:10

You...in my estimation are a good example of a poor representation of the human breed That is a personal attack.





 


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