Correctness in puppies - Page 1

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by windy torres on 01 October 2018 - 01:10

Hi there .with the years I've learned a bit about dog structure and behavior, but still find difficult to spot a puppy for the composition and structure he or she will develop. Even knowing that they could go through a dramatic changes. I still struggle to get it right
Any link , video or tip you can provide.
Thanks in advance.

by Sunsilver on 01 October 2018 - 03:10

Windy, there are 3 basic kinds of German shepherds, and what is considered correct structure is different in each one.

What kind of GSD are you wanting to know about?

by Hundmutter on 01 October 2018 - 08:10

Ah ... but there is only ONE Breed Standard !

Seriously, Windy, nobody has a magic way of predicting exactly what a puppy will turn out to be as an adult dog. The people who can make the more accurate predictions are those who have long experience in the breed, and have seen a LOT of dogs grow up. So they can make INFORMED guesses. And even then, nature has a way of throwing a spanner in the works. There aren't any real short-cuts.

The best any of us can hope for is to know the dogs behind our puppy, and what THEIR good points, strengths and weaknesses are/were; so if you chose to go with Working lines, for example, the dogs are a bit structurally different to the direct-import Germanic dogs, and also to the (eg) AKC Showline dogs - and they may be very different in their temperament.

LEARN the Standard; judge every GSD you see against what you think the Standard says they should be; compare that, wherever & whenever you can, to what Judges or experienced breeders / owners say about the dogs' qualities. Look for consistency between your growing pup and what his sire and dam had to offer; and their parents, too, plus other dogs, whether or not blood-related, from the same kennel(s) / breeder(s). If these things seem to be consistent, then it is likely your puppy will follow in the same vein. If they seem to vary a great deal, that tells you volumes about how careful the breeding programme wasn't; and predicts that your dog, too, may be a 'mixed bag' of good breed points and bad.

by windy torres on 01 October 2018 - 22:10

Thanks for your input.
Ii own two DDR dogs one is a young male and a 3 month old black female puppy. I'm really happy with the pedigree behind those dogs. As a beginner I can't ask for more.

by Hoytn on 02 October 2018 - 02:10

I know a very well known golden retriever breeder and she says the same thing thing you will not truely know how a puppy until it matures. She told me stories of picking a bitch that hit every mark for a great puppy, 3 months its teeth went to hell and her structure went as well, beautiful dog still not not a breedable dog.

by Rik on 02 October 2018 - 13:10

agree with only one standard. many distortions to that standard to fit many different activities in he world of the GSD. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to read and understand what VS intended the GSD to be.

most anyone who participates in an activity, or has a clearly defined set of goals (any activity, right of wrong) will over time gain knowledge in that activity. some people learn how to apply this knowledge.

just replying to what I participated in most, ASL, I first had to learn to recognize gait, then comes a host of other qualities that have to be met over time. as mentioned, teeth, h/e, etc. the priorities are different for different activities.

i guess what I am saying is that experience is the best way to learn, and that takes time, probably many failures and hopefully some success.

if there is no clearly defined goal it's just pretty much helter skelter and puppies for sale. and this is not judgement on anyone's goals, I no longer agree with what mine were for many years, it's just the way it is.

by apple on 02 October 2018 - 16:10

Actually, there is a lot of history as to the evolution of the SV's intention of the GSD to be. The founding dog, Horand, was from herding lines, but never obtained a herding (HGH) title and never worked as a herding dog. The founder of the breed, von Stephanitz, had a vision of the breed being the predominant police and military dog after the need for herding dogs declined. After WWII, the SV was taken over by the show line enthusiasts and the split began-some wanted the breed to be a beauty dog and others wanted the dog to be a true working dog. Working potential should override conformation (form follows function.) The reason the SV hands out IPO titles, which are no longer an assessment of a dog's working ability, to the show line dogs, is because the dogs are not challenged by the helper in trials. The SV hijacked the original founders of the breed's purpose. If you want to learn the breed standard, I would focus on the functional aspects of the standard (behavior as the OP put it,) not the conformational aspects of the standard. IMO, just the asking of this question shows how misguided people are as to the true standard of the breed.

by susie on 02 October 2018 - 17:10

I made the experience that I will get what I am able to see in a 6 to 6.5 weeks old puppy ( in case the pups haven't been sick out of any reason ).
Seems to work in case of conformation, seems to work in case of character, at least for me.
That said I watch the whole litter I am interested in as often as possible when the pups are 5 weeks and older.
I don' t care about the so called "pick of the litter" - I either get the pup I want or I quit.

Won't help in case of teeth, HD, or ED though..

by Nans gsd on 02 October 2018 - 22:10

Well and if I may add to the above I think its about training your eyes to look at the conformation of the dog; that means you have to see a lot of puppies and watch them grow up until at least 2 years old; evaluate temperament as they grow up; usually, ( I say usually now) most dogs will either fall apart of stay together by the time they are 2, maybe sometimes a little bit older give or take; most of the time you can carry that conformation throughout many different herding and working breeds and even some sporting dogs; then you can add your personal preferences but good conformation is good conformation although I do feel the GSD in general is a bit tougher than some breeds to evaluate especially as a puppy to adult. So that is where the saying " puppies are a crap shoot" comes in to play. You will get very good at evaluations after a couple of your now grown up puppies are scrapped from a breeding program due to what I call "falling apart".

Experience does come in the play, see and evaluate as many litters as possible beginning at 5 weeks but really up to about 4 months old; I also have x-rayed puppies as early as 4 months; I do not base their whole future on that x-ray but I do consider it when exercising and working a young dog. Just common sense to me not to let a fair looking hip x-ray on a 4 month old puppy run hog wild, keep weight down and that is in any case and feed a good diet, along with raw. That is my 44 years of experience. Good luck. By the way love the look of Oprah, good luck with her, some nice dogs behind her, not sure about boy's pedigree.


PS:  good health background and working ability goes without saying, without either of those  you havent got a working dog or herding dog or sporting that can work for that matter.  If you have even watched a good horse gait away from  you and sidegate that is the flawless movement you are looking for.  Temperament is also a must and most of the time  you can evaluate that with good enviromental experiences as a puppy and lots of exposure.  BOL


by Prager on 03 October 2018 - 00:10

6 weeks,... look at pup at 6 weeks of age. that is the best window into what the pup will be physically and temperament-wise after he matures, provided that none screws it up.
FYI Nothing is 100% but this worked for me quite well.

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