Working to get my dog to get more serious - Page 25

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by Juno on 18 October 2018 - 15:10

Thanks Apple. The first 2 bites we did exactly that and it went fine. The last time as I mentioned we thought we would give him some more room to see if targeted the leg sleeve. Since he is not equipment focused he naturally focused on the man. I agree, we made some wrong assumptions but in a way I am glad to see that he will indeed bite for real. Granted, maybe not good for PSA or any other sport. I have to admit I was relieved the decoy did not get hurt but extremely happy with my dog’s actions. Confirmed what I have seen off the training field.

by apple on 18 October 2018 - 15:10

The training error is not good for PSA, but having a dog that will bite for real is not a problem at all, and is really the whole point of protection sports. There are dogs with strictly a sport training foundation that are civil and others are trained through their stress and can be titled, but are not civil, or are largely just prey driven and will not bite a man if they get kicked in the head.

by Vito Andolini on 30 October 2018 - 05:10

25 pages? Seriously? I read the OP, so excuse me if someone stole my thunder and I'm repeating.

Dude, you got a pic of your Decoy in his home country. Why are you asking us?
Don't take any of this the wrong way, but either trust your Decoy, or find someone else to train with. Stick with a guy and stop asking a computer screen. Trust me, the best guy isn't always the closest. There are some of the best guys in Florida. Be choosy. I'd rather work my dog on Steve or Ivan once a year than someone I don't trust to move my dog forward.
If you think this guy is good, stick with him. Nobody on here can read your dog. Nobody on here can see what you are doing. The worst thing is to have you asking internet trainers advice that conflicts with the person you're working with.
You sound like you're new to this, and that is obviously the case for all of us at some point. If you think this guy is good enough and safe with your dog, stick with him. Odds are, you're not going to the Worlds with this dog. Use this dog to learn and have fun. Go to some seminars, learn, meet some people and make connections. Figure out what you want to do and kill it with the next dog.

No training is better than bad training.

by Vito Andolini on 30 October 2018 - 05:10

Just noticed the videos and watched the first one. I haven't seen that much whip since I watched Rawhide. "Rolling rolling rolling, keep them doggies moving, Rawhide(crack)".

Seriously. No training is better than bad training. A three hour drive to someone decent every two months is better than bad training every week.

by Juno on 30 October 2018 - 11:10

Hi Vito,

Thanks for your post. We have moved on quite a bit since the original post..

Agree, no training is better than bad training...


by emoryg on 30 October 2018 - 14:10

You have moved forward quite a bit and I have certainly enjoyed watching the videos you share. Please keep the updates coming.

by Juno on 30 October 2018 - 14:10

Thanks Emoryg. We keep plugging along..

by emoryg on 30 October 2018 - 20:10

I went back and watched your video of the near miss from the leg bite.  That was a close call.  Fortunately your helper’s reaction time was quite good.  I have a few scars on my face from where my reaction times should have been better!  Leg bites, especially the initial ones, can be difficult to work.  I am sure you and your helper have now addressed your role and responsibility as the handler.  A lot of dogs, especially when worked on the upper body at first, are a little slow on leg bite reliability.  The dogs I worked with seldom took legs bites in training.  They all took the leg if there was nothing else, but preferred the arms or other parts of the upper torso.  This was pretty much exclusive when the training involved an attacking decoy, fleeing decoy, or motionless decoy.  The training bites were to the suit or a traditional bite-bar sleeve.  Hidden sleeves were a no no, and they only wore a muzzle for safety reason, such as having an injury checked by the vet.

Interesting to note that during actual street bites on fleeing suspects, most of the bites were to the legs.  I would have to check, but I can only remember one perp NOT being bit on the leg while trying to run away.  He took it on the shoulder.  On the other hand, a stationary suspect (such as one in hiding) was most often engaged on what was first available.  On the few occasions where my dogs were sent on a suspect coming at me, the bites were to the deltoid/pectoral region.   Ironically, on one of those bites the dog initially stopped the fleeing suspect by a leg bite.  

A few of the dogs I worked with would be called green (one did had some basic obedience) the others came from various training venues (SCH/IPO,ZVV,KNPV), but all had to pass the same selection test before I would bring them back to my department and start training.  

If you’re not familiar with it, the instinctive drift phenomenon (Breland & Breland) may explain the leg biting behavior of my four-legged partners.  This is a very strong indication of what is considered hardwired and what is considered programmed (evolution vs conditioning).   Anyway, watching your video made me think back to when my dogs were presented with leg bites in training and how they performed on actual street bites,   Keep plugging and have fun doing it!!

by Juno on 30 October 2018 - 21:10

Great post! On my way to training now so will re read your post when We get back.


by Juno on 31 October 2018 - 12:10

EMoryg, I re read your post again and really appreciate your insight and advice. Will certainly take them into consideration. Upon reading your post I am assuming you were a K9 handler and/or responsible for a K9 dept. Was that here in the US or overseas? I am curious because from what I have read K9 depts overseas may have different rules of engagements than here (of course there are differences between departments here too). Also, did you have any preference of what breed worked for you the best?

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