Old school German Shepherds - Page 10

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by joanro on 19 April 2018 - 21:04

Smart buyers are not the norm, Susie. Plus, you didn't mention I said, 'with insider assistance"when the buyer goes to Germany.
How many bitches are bred in Germany with the purpose of the huge American market? A lot. Big money selling to Americans and China....too many 'bred and confirmed pregnant 'bitches sold out of Germany...do the breeders in Germany worry about the fate of the litter they created for money only, to be whelped and sold in another country?
Happens too much.

by Centurian on 19 April 2018 - 22:04

One thing I have sadness over is that in USA , much is HIGHLY competitive and Business. When I was in Germany, although there is competition shows , trials etc .. the German people always seemed to help each other to better themselves and the dog. In many decades of dog training , what I see in USA : God forbid I share an idea with someone without getting paid and If I share information , a technique , I should get paid. God forbid should some one out do me , I will lose revenue and business. Ol School GS : I personally think that in USA this has been a major factor in the development of the GS . The result of this had been for years not being as educated about the GS and breeding and dogs in general that we should have been . I use the SL and the breeding of the White GS in USA as evidence .. Just my theory , can't prove this .. but common sense tells me that if we were educated better in the past , then we would have a better notion of what we were getting in Europe and not .. So no one to blame in that respect but ourselves. I agree with susie , big time .. no one forces anyone to buy anywhere !

by joanro on 19 April 2018 - 22:04

Of course no one is 'forced' to buy. That's not even a factor. But as I said, Germany is the home of the gsd breed,and pink papers are prestige to many unsuspecting and gullible people....money is the driving force that shaped the breed into what it has become. ...so much change in Germany in the breed that the german police outsource their dogs. That speaks volumes about the breed in Germany.

So how can the USA be better when that's where thousands of dogs/puppies come from yearly, when the German police won't even use the german bred dogs anymore?

No, the market is breeding and selling to the USA and China, then 'titling' the dogs for the Americans when they get sent back to germany ....big $$$...producing gsd in Germany is big industry.

And they're not sending their best!! MAGA

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 19 April 2018 - 23:04

I'm sorry Jesse feels such a distinct lack of 'freedoms' for people, and dogs, these days as compared to those "good ol' days"; personally I don't feel that my freedom to do anything has decreased, I believe we were a lot more hide-bound by rigid social structuring when I was a teenager than I ever have been SINCE the 60s. I don't subscribe to all this anti-PC nonsense either, the 'freedom' to hurt & insult other people because they are the 'wrong' sex or race or are disabled is never a 'freedom' I wanted to exercise, nor did I want the ability to let a dog roam unleashed through traffic, or any other such as implied in that post. Limitations the public impose on their children, around dogs or on any other 'safety' issue, may have altered the relationship between dog owners and others' kids in some degree but much of that is about perceptions, and not insurmountable. There have ALWAYS been dogs that were appropriately behaved around polite and civilised children, and others that were NOT.

Like Susie, I feel American - or other - buyers have every right to make sensible & informed purchases without anybody dumping rubbish dogs on them; if they choose not to inform themselves properly about what they are choosing to buy that is very much a freedom they do still have !

I can at least state that I make observations about the types and abilities of GSDs I have known during the past fifty years or so by making comparisons between exactly what was being discussed a few posts back - I have almost simultaneously been involved with one kennel in a London urban environment and a second larger group of dogs in a very free rural environment. Just as I cannot have everybody elses' experiences, so they cannot have had mine.

by joanro on 19 April 2018 - 23:04

If the germans only offered for sale 'rubbish' and is represented as 'world class', well, then that there is dishonesty.
So what about what has become of the gsd in Germany that even the police outsource to get the quality dogs they need?
Maybe the breeders in Germany actually believe their sales pitch! Cause the dogs they produce nowadays don't meet the demands for real work.
But they can sure hup hup around the ring!
Jessejones

by Jessejones on 20 April 2018 - 00:04

HundMutter- (mods; some may think this a bit off sub. But it is my rebuttal)

Please don’t change my post to something its not.

Where do I talk about social freedoms?

Where did I talk about anti-pc and freedom to hurt and insult wrong sex or disabled?

Where did I talk about dogs roaming and endangering people or traffic?

I’m talking about being responsible, but not being stifled by laws.

Perhaps you live in a different country than I do. I’m assuming you live in England and maybe it is not as bad there. Or you live rurally. I don’t know your situation.

Here in the US in places that I have lived, there are laws all over the place.
Signs all over the place....do this...don’t do that. The USA I grew up in had less laws for small things. I’m not talking socially.
In neighborhoods there are HOA by-laws all over the place.
There are barbed fences even in the most remote of countrysides, nothing around fo hundreds of miles...trespassing is not allowed.
I even lived in New Mexico, total emptiness, yet fences all over the place. I had to look very hard to find paths to walk my dogs.
Many state or federal parks do not allow dogs at all.

It is not so easy over here.

Even if you are responsible, and your dog is glued to your side, and there is no one around, you are not allowed to walk off leash in most places.

We have a old man in the neighborhood with a dog that is 14 years old that barely can walk anymore. He walks off leash with the dog, very slowly and the dog follows him and sniffs here and there. And, after lots of bickering, some people called the police on him because he refused to leash his dog. Nice.

Many dogs here live, most of, or their whole lives only in the back yard. Again, I say many...not all.
This CAN effect a dogs psyche.

I know that in many European countries one can roam and walk/hike the countryside with dogs and not always on leash. When I am in Germany with my dogs, I too can hike the countryside with my dogs if I want too. It’s a matter of course that one is always responsible and that the dog is under your control.
Leash laws are more flexible.
Most people are responsible, again most...not all, and it mostly works.

And, because of these freedoms, I find...again, my opinion, that dogs are not as paranoid or wound-up as many that I experience over here...on the other side of the pond. AGAIN, I write, some dogs... not all dogs.

What I write about is only my opinion and my experiences.
People can argue with it, and i appreciate other views, but it doesnt change that it isn’t true in my neck of the woods and every place in the US that I have lived or visited. Others may have other experiences.


Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 20 April 2018 - 06:04

Jesse, I'm sorry, the last time I looked, the UK was a part of 'Western Europe' (Brexit notwithstanding !), so when you said "We that lived and grew up in Western Europe / USA had more freedoms at that time than now." then I bit. Even though you now more fully describe what it is you were referring to, I am still growling ... a bit.  You see, yes here too there are "do this / don't do that" signs all over our streets, frankly I don't feel as constrained by them as you do.  I do not feel I have lost any 'freedom' because some authority is trying to keep me (and children) safer around traffic.  Most of these things are there for a purpose, they are not there to deliberately annoy passers-by. With or without dogs.  I cannot for the life of me see how it advantages dog or owner to allow dogs to run around in heavy traffic off lead. You or I would train that dog to walk to heel, and hope for a good enough dog that it would resist all temptation, from the sudden appearence of a running cat (or urban fox, as happened to me at least once !) to a huge crash behind us as some truck loses its load, or its brakes.  The vast majority of modern dog owners would not.  Almost all pride and skill in having a well-trained and stable pooch having disappeared with the new type of 'must-have' owner I referred to ^ - and its perfectly clear from TV that America has as high a proportion of those as we do over here.

Of course I'd agree that it is ridiculous to persecute some septugenarian for walking his equally elderly pet off-lead at snail's pace;  but I honestly do not see that there is any difference between 'then' and 'now' in the sort of busybody who would persue that and report it to the authorities;  from that behaviour among neighbours to the dictator instructing people to inform on those around them is not too huge a step, and the latter has occurred as much in past generations as the present day, has it not ?

And of course I regret, on my American friends behalf, that they are constrained to use 'Dog Parks' the size of handkerchiefs and cannot have long walks with their dogs in green environments; you think we don't have problems with built up areas here ? The US is a lot bigger than England ! Or you do what sensible owners here do and have always done - you take advantage of any unregulated open space you CAN find, and you join & utilise the premises of a dog club.  Again, if anyone actively wants to bring out the best in their dog, they can, if they make the effort.  Trouble is, a lot don't have that desire, to make the effort. And yes of course that leads to those breeding for the mass market to disregard that part of the equation, and produce less dogs that are 'great' in temperament and abilities.  I'm simply pointing out that over-generalisation leads to threds like these advertising to the bulk of 'silent' readers that it has ALL gone to hell in a handcart, and nobody can find a decent dog anymore.  And I'm saying that is just not true, but that when you find good stock, whichever 'lines' label you want to stick on it, you should be prepared to put in the work to bring it to its full potential (and to think a little about what lies underneath some peoples' complaints about their dogs).

Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 20 April 2018 - 15:04

Freedom is being able to walk down the street with a beer in your hand without getting arrested or fined.

by joanro on 20 April 2018 - 15:04

Freedom is spitting on the street without being fined....but in NY city, commie deblassio has made pizzing in public OK....because the chosen foreign nationals don't know any better.
And defecating on the sidewalks of San Fran is OK because their same chosen foreign nations don't know any better...they never saw a toilet and don't want to either.

And dog owners have way less 'rights' than these uncivilized chosen special people.

Dog owner in these cities get fined for not picking up their dog's poo, yet the preferred people are allowed to pee and dump in the street and on the sidewalk and kids have to step over the piles on the way to school but the law gives them their blessings to create this filth and disease.

Move to the country, enjoy your freedom with your dogs and let the cities rot in their policies of filth.

susie

by susie on 20 April 2018 - 17:04

That's my way of life, Joanro 😃 And - honestly - is there any reason ( besides the few real service dogs ) to keep a dog like a GSD in the city ??? For what ?



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