Another Unlawful PDB Ad - Page 1

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Import Puppies for Christmas Titled Parents
Puppies for sale

Top son - VA Pacco vom Langenbungert
Male for sale

At Stud Import V Aladin vom Bergmannsland IPO3 OFA
Stud Dog

by JonRob on 07 December 2017 - 15:12


Here we go again:

"German Shepherd Dog - Male for sale
Serious patrol dog / psa prospect
Sent by Workingk9s1
United States US ←→ Posted from United States
Send personal message about classified to Workingk9s1
Updated: Dec 06, 2017 07:20 PM (inserted 20 hours ago) -> 177

Very hard dog for dual purpose patrol work or high level sports , 105 pounds , excellent off leash obedience , over the top prey drive , social and safe but can be sharp with strangers ( not a therapy dog) , very hard in the fight , crushing grip , and zero enviormental issues . This is a superb , once in a life working dog as he was selected for naval special warfare mwd but due to his size wasn't the right choice, he is not cheap .. please don't waste my time.this dog needsk a very experience handler and a JOB!! He will not make a good pet due to no having an off switch . 2037224837, absolutely no physically impaired handlers and female handlers must be evaluated by me personally to be considered."

It is unlawful to discriminate against disabled people and women like this. It is also unlawful for PDB to post an ad like this. Assuming the dog is being sold in the U.S. But maybe he's being sold in Saudi Arabia where they love that kind of stuff.

Not the first time PDB has posted an ad like this. I'm sure it won't be the last unless someone sues their asses off and the seller's ass off. This place is such a cesspool.

by hexe on 07 December 2017 - 17:12

PDB didn't post the ad, the seller did. This is a free site to users, and the admins are volunteers--if you feel that every classified must be proofread before it gets put up, by all means, volunteer your time to do so, and I'm sure the admins will be happy to accomodate you.

This is how it works: if someone posts an ad that is discriminatory or fraudulent, it will be noticed by one of the membership. Instead of posting a snarky complaint to the message board, the member who notices the problematic classified should contact one or more of the admins via PM and advise them of said classified.

And since this site isn't hosted in the US, nor is the owner of the site located in the US, it isn't bound by the laws of the US. If you consider the site such a 'cesspool', why are you even still here?

by Western Rider on 07 December 2017 - 17:12

Well JonRob I DO read all Ads just not before they are posted.

I read them after and many times as some Ads are changed after they have been up for a few days.

I see nothing wrong with this Ad the owner of the dog is trying to state fairly who HE thinks can handle the dog. 

It looks like he is trying to do two things, one not be contacted by someone who is not qualified to handle the dog and second to not be sued because he sold the dog to anyone who had the money then the dog hurt the new owner or their family or even a stranger.  

Good Job for the owner wish more sellers thought about the life of the animal after they sold it instead of just the money in their pocket.

Really cesspool you join many years ago when it was a CESSPOOL it is so much better now.

 

by JonRob on 07 December 2017 - 18:12


So, Western Rider, an ad saying "absolutely no African-American handlers and Native American handlers must be evaluated by me personally to be considered" is also ok?

I know quite a few women who could kick the snot out of a lot of men and who could easily handle a dog like this. I also know military veteran amputees and wheelchair users who are built like The Terminator and who could easily handle a dog like this. I also know non-disabled men who are skinny little weenies and who couldn't handle a Toy Poodle.

But that's the thing about bigots--they don't have enough brain power to look at each person individually, so they have to rely on their bigoted view of the world. This has nothing to do with finding the right home for the dog and everything to do with stupidity.

The seller is breaking the law and can be sued for doing so. PDB has no business promoting his illegal misconduct even if--and this is not at all clear--PDB is off the hook legally.

"If you consider the site such a 'cesspool', why are you even still here?" Usually I'm not. I'm busy training dogs, and I don't have time to waste making thousands of posts on multiple forums. And I don't like stepping in cesspools. But I was curious to see if PDB folks would jump to defend unlawful discrimination against disabled people (including veterans) and women. As I expected, they have.

That's my last word on this subject. There's a real world with real dogs in it and that's where I spend my time.

jdiogoc

by jdiogoc on 07 December 2017 - 18:12

Hi JonRon,

Unless the seller is a business, I don't think there are any US laws regarding who you can sell your dogs to, which if true means that the ad creator can sell his dog to anyone he wants, discriminating against whoever he wants.

However, if you know of any written laws about the subject, feel free to link them or transcribe them and I'm sure PDB Admins will act :).

Regards,
J

by JonRob on 07 December 2017 - 20:12


This really is my last word on this. My lawyer friend couldn’t stop laughing when he read the pro-discrimination posts. He gave me the following info. Get your own lawyer if you need more details.

The seller is a business and a public accommodation to use the legal term.

Americans with Disabilities Act

https://www.ada.gov/pubs/adastatute08.htm#12181

(i) Denial of participation
It shall be discriminatory to subject an individual or class of individuals on the basis of a disability or disabilities of such individual or class, directly, or through contractual, licensing, or other arrangements, to a denial of the opportunity of the individual or class to participate in or benefit from the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, or accommodations of an entity.

(ii) Participation in unequal benefit
It shall be discriminatory to afford an individual or class of individuals, on the basis of a disability or disabilities of such individual or class, directly, or through contractual, licensing, or other arrangements with the opportunity to participate in or benefit from a good, service, facility, privilege, advantage, or accommodation that is not equal to that afforded to other individuals.

The Civil Rights Act of 1964

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964

The Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Pub.L. 88–352, 78 Stat. 241, enacted July 2, 1964) is a landmark civil rights and US labor law in the United States[5] that outlaws discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin.[6] It prohibited unequal application of voter registration requirements, racial segregation in schools, employment, and public accommodations.

Section 1981

Section 1981 covers contracts and outlaws race discrimination, which Western Rider, given his/her lack of response to my question about racially discriminatory ads, may be enthusiastic about, at least in PDB ads. Section 1981 applies to private individuals not just businesses and has no limit on punitive damages. That takes the fun right out of discrimination.

Also looks like PDB is not off the hook legally when it posts discriminatory ads. But they can have their own lawyers get the details on that one.

Ain’t life a bitch? Why, there was a time when whites could lynch African-Americans at will and nothing was done. Gosh, now a fella can’t even discriminate in the dog biz with being held accountable for his acts.

At least the bigots have a refuge in the PDB cesspool—for now.

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 07 December 2017 - 21:12

You were "curious to see if PDB folks would jump to defend unlawful discrimination ... (and) they have."
Pretty sure Hexe's response was not doing that. And until WR responded, no one else did, unless they contacted you privately by PM.

And although I think the Admin, Western Rider, has been suckered into believing that the advertiser's sole interest in prohibiting responses from women and people with disabilities is to stop the dog having to meet a potential owner who (maybe, maybe not) cannot cope with him, (and presumably save himself time and face in having to reject them on application !), the legal position re an out of US site owner allowing discriminatory things to appear on a worldwide website, when not all countries have the same equality laws, is not completely 'cut & dried'. Pointing that out isn't a defence of the ludicrous and thoroughly nasty sentiments in the ad.

I am sure your lawyer friend would be correct, IF PDB was only read in the US and by US citizens, to whom US laws apply.  America does not actually control legislation in the rest of the world.  Some of our countries have similar legal restrictions, some of our countries are signatories to appropriate UN codes of practise / resolutions.  But that is possibly as far as it goes; a test case in court would be interesting in respect of much wider implications for the Internet, but to suggest advertisers on PDB are irretrievably bound by anti-discrimination legislation as of now is probably stretching things.  I do agree that whoever on PDB admins (WR or anyone else, even Oli himself) has responsibility for rejecting racism in ads needs to be just as vigilant for other types of discrimination.  But don't be so quick to condemn the whole membership.

by altostland on 08 December 2017 - 05:12

As a disabled individual AND a female, I support the poster of the ad 100%. Anyone selling a dog SHOULD know and determine what the dog is good for and what it is not. If only everyone selling dogs on here would be this discriminating. The seller has every right to be choosy about the home that will best suit this dog.

by JonRob on 08 December 2017 - 08:12

"As a disabled individual AND a female, I support the poster of the ad 100%. Anyone selling a dog SHOULD know and determine what the dog is good for and what it is not. If only everyone selling dogs on here would be this discriminating. The seller has every right to be choosy about the home that will best suit this dog."

Well, well, the infamous Judy Malone surfaces. Anyone who's been suckered into thinking she's motivated by giving a crap about the well-being of dogs should search "Judy Malone" and "Alt Ostland" on this forum.

This thread is a good start, complete with pics:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/community.read?post=532547-altolstead-kennel-info-help

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 08 December 2017 - 08:12

And as a disabled individual who is also female, I DO NOT support the advertiser, as his ad is written. I have the sense to know that I could probably not handle this dog, if it is as described; I also would not WANT this dog, if it is as described. For the dog's sake as much as my own. But I am not so arrogant as to believe that there is no woman handler out there, or disabled person of either gender, who could not do the job, and relish the challenge of handling such a dog. You cannot tell me every able-bodied bloke who applies is suitable to own that dog, or that one who is apparently 'perfect' for him in the seller's eyes would not wash out further down the line.

So while I appreciate a warning that it would be pointless for me to try to buy this dog, I still entirely disapprove of the advertiser's blanket discrimination policy. This ad could have been written entirely differently yet still achieved the end of not having unsuitable owners waste their time or the sellers - but then, he would have had to have had polite and sensible conversations with one or two inappropriate buyers, rather than embarrass himself proclaiming his prejudices and just getting to grab the money as fast as possible, which is what he likely wants to do.

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