Floppy Ears - Page 2

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by Nabil2399 on 18 July 2017 - 16:07

He was observed during the first show (one runned by the SV associations if you will) but during the other contests which were directed by the Kennel Club judges didnt mention anything and awarded excellent titles straight away. The Seiger show is in Bolivia and all I can hope for is that I can solidify them a bit more with supplements, I heard that i might try that and it might help. Hopefully I will get him certified, that is done by an approved judge and that will say a lot more. p.s. it not that bad the ears are firm yet when he gaits or runs the move a bit but its not very bad. Yes, showing is very complicateed plus its my first time so right now i am learning a lot

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 18 July 2017 - 18:07


Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 18 July 2017 - 18:07

'Excellent' is an evaluation, not a Title.

Re 'soft' ears, ie those which stand but wobble around :Which version of the Standard are you quoting, Shatterhand ? FCI might apply here, so the OP needs to check that.

That's why I asked the OP where he was and what Club(s) were involved, because countries judging practises vary, and some will worry more about this problem than others. It would be very unusual for a dog in the UK, for example, to be thrown out completely just because its ears moved too much when gaiting.

It might put it further back down the line, but unless every other dog in competition was better on all fronts including ears, it would still be considered for a place if few enough dogs were present, or in larger classes still 'graded' (unofficially) even if that meant being given a ranking in double figures.


susie

by susie on 18 July 2017 - 18:07

We are talking about a dog that got his ears taped twice ( 6 months / 8 months ).
A puppy with floppy ears - not at all that uncommon...

There is no need of ear infections, hematomas, damage to the muscles ( in both ears, to the same time ? ), or even too much weight of the coat ( ! ) around the ears ( nice try to justify faulty ears in long stock coats ) ... it´s just genetics ( like almost always in this case ).

No, a longcoat should NOT have smaller ears than a regular coat, Lunastar, it´s ONE breed with ONE breed standard besides the coat length.

I would tape the ears, too, in case my puppy wold have floppy ears at that age ( 6 months + ) -
but I would NEVER breed this dog.

GSDs are supposed to have erect, firm ears, stock coats AND long stock coats, everything else is a major ( and almost always ) genetic fault.

Have fun with your dog, even show him, in the best case train and title him, but stay away from any breedings, because everything else would be a disservice to the breed.

by Swarnendu on 18 July 2017 - 21:07

"Ears

The German Shepherd Dog has erect ears of medium size, which are
carried upright and aligned (not drawn-in laterally); they are pointed
and with the auricle facing forward.

Tipped ears and drooping ears are faulty. Ears carried rearward when
moving or in relaxed position are not faulty."

To OP,

This is the FCI Standard. Check the last line. If what you are experiencing matches with that, this is NOT a problem.

Else, uploading a video will help.

Regarding taping: At best, it only helps to erect the ears one or two weeks earlier than what would have happened naturally anyway. If the puppy isn't going to erect the ears naturally, the ears wouldn't go up no matter how many times you tape them. Of course taping would help to heal an accidentally damaged cartilage faster.

At worst, when you are asleep, the puppy may try to kick the irritation off the ears, and damage the cartilage or cause a haematoma in the process, causing permanent floppy ears.

by gsd forever on 18 July 2017 - 21:07

i have two litter mates that came from germany in march 2017. both had their ears erect by May they started to weaken and flop over then they bounced back up and yes these pups are doing this pretty much in sinc with each other. their ears stand hard and erect for a day or two then we have flying nun ears again. as of today the female has her ears up but shaky. his haven't been up in 2 weeks and they flop over his head. i have taped, i have used the inserts i let them relax for a few days before retaping or re inserting the mold. i feed eagle power pac they eat a total of 5 cups per day vit c/calciu/glycoflex//sure grow. i bought them for show and breeding. seems funny now that when i think about it no where is there a picture of the mother or grandmother wonder if their ears are up i truly believe this is only genetic

by old shatterhand on 18 July 2017 - 21:07

Stop using those excuses. Damage or not is not important.Soft anf floppy ears are disqualifyinmg faults and nothing you can do. This is genetic and is recomended to remowe such a dog from farther breeding and reproducing.I know someone who just had a litter of 7 puppes last year. They are now over a year old ,and only one from all of them has erected ears,rest have floppy ears.I bought some puppies from other breeders even from VA dogs and the ears never erected so I gave those youngsters when they were about 10-12 months old to my family members, and that was end of story. They have a good life, and I can sleep well without any remorse.Breeding should be for the best,to improve the breed not to make it worse as it is. 


Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 19 July 2017 - 05:07

Yeah but Susie and Shatterhand (and despite the AKC's wording), we are talking about Bolivia, where either the FCI or the country's own version of the Standard will apply, probably NOT AKCs; and we are talking ears that do NOT tip over permanently at the top, nor fold and fall. Doesn't actually sound as if they even do the - allowable - fold back /  get carried in a relaxed position  in motion.  They just have cartilege that remains a little too soft, and so they bend and swivel a bit while the dog is on the move.  We have surely all seen dogs - at least in SV style, where they have room to get going - whose ears do this, where they aren't "rock solid". Having been taped or not in puppyhood.

When people take a disproportionate interest in something like this, yet still breed dogs with MAJOR faults, yes including the fully soft 'dropped' ears, then the priorities are a little askew.  IME nothing says an adult with ears that just  'move about a bit in the wind' ever had an actual problem - they may have stood up normally and at the right time, they may look and feel strong enough on a day-to-day basis, when the dog is stood up still; they may be perfectly able and muscular enough to react to sounds etc - but they still move about a bit, more than those of some other dogs, when the dog gets on the move.

 

Almost all versions of the Standard (including the current FCI's, approved by the SV, AND that of the RSV2000 ) contain a further paragraph later in their text:

FAULTS  "Any departure from the foregoing points should be considered a fault, and the seriousness with which the fault should be regarded should be in exact  proportion to its degree and to its effect upon the health and welfare of the dog."

 

The reason dogs get decent gradings even when their ears are a bit floppy on the move is precisely because the judges have seen that in other respects, both conformational and - in countries / KC jurisdictions where they are taking it into account - proven working ability, the dogs have plenty to offer.

 

Now, any of us might stay so hard and fast to our principles, and never breed from a dog which displayed this particular weakness, on the grounds that a 'soft ear' is a 'soft ear' no matter to what degree;  but it is perfectly obvious that many breeders, including in Germany, see other things they want in their breeding programmes which surpass closing the door on a dog which has everything else going "excellent" for it, but whose ears move around a little too much when it is gaiting.  Which is why almost all judges everywhere would not throw it out of their Ring.


susie

by susie on 19 July 2017 - 05:07

Hundmutter, the dog´s ears have been taped twice - they haven´t been soft, but erect, they have been hanging down.
After being taped they now are "soft" or "floppy"...
A judge can only judge what he is able to see ( the owner won´t tell him that the ears had been taped ).

So I think it´s absolutely fine to say:

"Have fun with your dog, even show him, in the best case train and title him, but stay away from any breedings, because everything else would be a disservice to the breed."

by Nabil2399 on 19 July 2017 - 11:07

Just a little FYI since a lot of people are concerned with the breeding aspect of the questions, before any dog can breed here he needs to get certified as a breeder. To do that he needs to run a dysplasia examination and a conduct examination ( something similar to the CGC test) and as a part of that test the dog goes up for examination in front of a licensed who will decide if the dog has met all the requirements as per the breed standard. Therefore Floppy ears will be surely noted and the decision does not lie in the owner but rather on the judge on will inspect the dog and his physical integrity to determine if he is all right or not.





 


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