Bizarre dog fraud case - Page 2

The issue does not seem to be one of non-Registration, but of substitution. Hexe 'got it'.

You two speak as though history began yesterday; we do not yet know which case vk is referring to, or how old it is. (Several generations may be involved before these things are discovered ?) DNA'ing is (comparitively) recent. It certainly wasn't regularly available at the time of the UK case I described, which was 20+ years ago. And yes, a lot is still taken on trust. Could check isn't the same as would check.

If someone shows you papers that confirm the identity of the dog and says "This is the dog", do you rush to bring in a vet nurse with a syringe ?  Or do you just let it mate your bitch ?  I even know cases of (experienced) people who did not check the TATTOO in the stud dog's ear to ensure it was the correct dog, when that was the common method of identification.  Okay DNA will sort it out LATER, now; but only after a lot of bother, if you have to establish paternity after pups are sold on / grown up.  I feeel for those people who have maybe been caught out by this.

The dog may well have been alive when he was shipped into Oz; his paperwork may well have been all in order. A death on or close to delivery might prove expensive enough to tempt those bringing him in to carry on as though he were still alive. Even if Australia is as shit-hot on DNA for imported animals (and I suspect not, if they are inedible ones), its all shuffling bits of paper, not exam. of actual pooches.  And IF the AuKC was sufficiently interested to check before Import Registration, I strongly suspect that would all be done on paperwork too,  neither authority trotting out to the Holding Centre to check a dog bodily on the day it flies in.  It is those sorts of loopholes that allow somebody to dream up these scams.

AKC may ask for a DNA test for imports, but do they work together with f.e. SV or do they just store the DNA of "a dog called xyz" ?

Hundmutter, out of VKs post I understood the case must have happened around 2 - 3 years ago ( 2. generation on Australian ground ), but I may be wrong.

About the DNA test - in a country where EVERY dog has to be tested no stud dog owner will use a "wrong" stud - no chance to hide the truth - that´s why the DNA test became mandatory.

AKC may ask for a DNA test for imports, but do they work together with f.e. SV or do they just store the DNA of "a dog called xyz" 

 

AKC stores  it.  To be used if there is a question of who is the dam or sire of a puppy.

I don't believe they work with the SV in this.

I think the same, Western.
Pretty useless in case of imports, isn´t it?

BIG LOOPHOLE

Back to "trust"....( I don´t tend to trust, sorry )

Okay, Susie, let's say it was within 2 years (we don't actually have enough evidence in what Pete said to KNOW, but let's take it that it is recent, and the imported dog has a piece of paper, and file on record, that states his DNA 'code'.
You & I own a bitch in Australia (just for e.g.) and she is the right number of days into her season, so we have booked, and take her to the kennel of Mr X, who recently imported a highly qualified and well-bred dog of highline German stock. Even a 'well known' dog , say he's been vice-Sieger. Just for laughs.
A) You nor I actually know Mr X terribly well, its out of our area so we don't run into him @ Club; but we've met him at a Show or two, he's judged dogs we own, he has a decent reputation.
B) We have both seen the dog since it was imported, but not close up, and it was now several weeks ago. You haven't been back to Germany for years and therefore have not had any chance to see him earlier or get to know him hands on.
But we agree we like the breeding, and we both think we know a well-bred correct GSD when we see it.

Mr X brings out his dog and he is introduced to our female, meanwhile he signs a Stud Agreement for his Kennel Club that says this is the dog he is using, with all the numbers and info written out. It seems a nice, well put together animal, looks very like the imported superstar. Looks like the photos, more or less - we know how photos differ, with the light etc.

We either accept this arrangement at face value; OR we say "Just in case you've swapped dogs on us, Mr X, you won't mind if we take a cheek swab or a hair sample, and we won't pay you the stud fee until the result comes back from the lab." Yeah right, how many bitch owners do it like that, even these days ?

If the DNA of the original isn't proven with the parent organization, all they'd have to do is send in the DNA of the substitute dog and bam. Now it's on record. How will they prove otherwise?

Yes, Dawulf, they need to send the DNA to the country of origin for proof, even the DNA of a puppy would be fine - but how many countries actually do store DNA of each and every single dog ???
In case it´s a dog bred in Germany = no problem, in case it´s a dog bred somewhere else?

Hundmutter, you don´t understand my point.
In a country where all dogs are DNAed I don´t need to trust the stud dog owner ( or the brood bitch owner ) because their dogs are DNAed and the puppies will be.

scammer