I Want Beauty He Wants a Beast - Page 2

Erm - wasn't there a poster called Kevin on here who had really successful IPO dogs from Mittelwest ...?

Ahem. Her Prince is a Mittelwest breeding, Blk & Red, she's been there, done that. She wants a dark Sable with the correct conformation that would win at NASS.
 

Beetree! 

BINGO!!!!

you are an amazing women 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻😊😊😊😊😊😊

I don't know your background, but I guess why a lot of top working dog breeders don't put it all out there as you are wanting is because they probably don't have to (being brutally honest! ;) ) They have it available (on working-dog or on their website or sendable to buyers if requested) but don't go forum to forum posting it. They're busy with the dogs themselves, not necessarily marketing them. Harder working lines are not really dogs that are typically advertised to the general public because it's not what people need/want and it does no one any good to put them in the wrong homes.

Their target buyers know what they want and will find them. They have waiting lists. People who want to see them work will find the videos themselves (there are scores of them online; Google is your friend), or they will come test the dogs themselves. They can go to the clubs and watch the dogs work with their own eyes or they spend hours online watching videos of the dogs that interest them.

Pretty hard to give you a list of names when you haven't stated what temperament traits and working traits you are looking for. And, no one knows your definition of "beauty." If you could post what type character is important to you and specifically what the goals are (club level or national competition or pet who gets worked for fun by the whole family) for the "working" part of things, and then described in detail what you find "beautiful" that would help a lot. A larger or more middle-sized dog? A particular color or any color so long as it has good pigment? A certain style structure? Certain type head? Heavy bone or more moderate? If you don't spell that stuff out, people will just throw out what THEY find beautiful and we all know how that goes ..... ;)

For starters, I would search the SG- V rated working line dogs (and their videos if you don't live near enough to test them yourself) and find out about their temperaments and what they produce. Look up the dogs from the show that you liked. There is surely a roster online that will tell you exactly who they were. That will give you a good idea.

Where are you located? If nearby, go to the clubs near you and see if any of their dogs appeal to you in person (pictures can be quite deceptive! LOL!) and find out where they got them. Were they bred for structure as well as character, or is the dog a lucky fluke?

You want names? My personal favorites (again, ZERO clue if you would find them beautiful) are the Stadtfeld bloodlines for both type and temperament. Good nerves, good drive, good balance, good grips, more the type dog that rises to the occasion than the one you're constantly scraping off the ceiling...and structure to die for. I have only one GSD that doesn't go back to those lines....that's how much I like what they bring to the table. I like the health, too. Uno sired a litter of 8 at 12yrs 3 mos. according to working-dog.eu offspring list. 

Hope that helps a bit. Your husband's experience with working dogs would also be helpful if you want more valid suggestions relevant to your situation.
 

Good post Jenni

jenni,, thanks for the post ,,,

What I find beautiful is what beetree stated simply ,,, a dark sable working line that could win a NASS! 

:)))

Thats it in a nut shell,,,, :))

And I get all that you're saying in your post above ,,, I do not think that the types of breeders I'm looking for are scanning the likes of these threads trying to drum up business lol ,,,but there could be a few members around that can drop names,,, that's the point and purpose of my thread here.

And anyway this thread is for me as he knows what he wants and where he can find it, He's less concerned about "looks" then I am, but he knows it's important to me so we are taking our time and trying to find something that works for us both.

As I said this thread is for me because I love the interaction with you all. It's been a long time since I've had something to discuss :) I'm just having a bit of fun here with you all hoping to find a gold nugget of information if that's possible ! 

 

There are multiple threads on here about workingline breeder recommendations that you can search. You can go to any of their sites and check out all the pedigrees and videos you could ever want. I have no idea how crazy drivy you and your husband are looking for, you can get fairly mellow to swinging from the ceiling. I wish I was in a position to get another puppy - I'm not! - as there's a bitch that's currently pregnant that I would LOVE to have a pup from so I'm hoping she's still making babies for several more years so I can get one when I'm ready. I love everything about this bitch!

The Stadtfeld lines would be a good place to look. I haven't seen an ugly one yet.

Where are you looking to go, Ruger? Club level IPO? Regionals? Championship levels? How much time are you prepared to put in to training to get you to that level? Ravi Iyer's show line dog Juneau vom Haus Tyson certainly was an excellent example of a GSD who could win at upper levels in both venues; likewise Karen Sinclair did it with Ule vom TeMar, Erin O'Shea with Zambo von Riedschlurgi....but these individuals set out with that goal in mind and put everything they had into their training in order to get there.

So you go the route of a V-structured dark sable working line instead--and they aren't as difficult to come by if you stay picky and stick with lines where structure clearly was as important as working traits--then what? The likelihood of that dog winning NASS are slim, since even if you had a dark sable show line it would be difficult to achieve...  If you'll be satisfied with a dog that could make VA at NASS, though, I'd expect that should be achievable if you put the same kind of time into ring-training & grooming that you do into the working training.

From my observation, the Arolser-Holz lines were typically V rated in conformation, as are many of the Saltzel- lines [-blick, -Hohe, -Haus, etc.], but may not produce the dark sables as much as they're found in the DDR- and Czech-lineage dogs.The Tiekerhook and Haus Antverpa lines aren't likely to have the eye appeal you want for the conformation ring, though they will have the working ability your husband wants. 

It will be interesting to see how your quest unfolds...

Look, I always had some doubts about Ruger's ability to handle a strong-natured dog ("working" or otherwise,) DUE to conversations we had on here about Prince and his peccadilloes. I'm sorry I forgot he was from Mittelwest, but that does not affect the point I was making - which is that Kevin proved the line can be worked.

I know time has gone by, and you are more experienced these days Ruger, but if there is discord between you & 'hubby' about which type of dog to get, I seriously feel it might be sensible to go for the 'S/L' again, simply because you will probably be the one who has to put most time into the dog and even if that is not the case, you do have to live with it too. JMHO