Chewey on sleeve - Page 1

I am interested in anyone's experiences with slight chewyness on the sleeve. Not interested in theories or speculation...just experiences and how corrected (if at all) and if it translated anywhere else.

Recently I have come across three dogs with this, one is my own and two are dogs I work. I want to be sure I am not doing anything to cause this as a helper. I do not work my own dog. The chewyness is ever so slight...not a full re-grip and I do not believe it is nervy. Two of the dogs are super high prey (mine included) and one is civil (DDR). Two are mature and mine is only a year and a half. Mine is relatively new to bitework and I brought him along slowly...with rag - pillows and finally last week full sleeve. He hits hard and full but I I will notice a slight regrip and when he does...he bites even harder. It is usually a one time deal but seems consistent. He is solid with stick hits and quick to engage helpers. What I have tried: immediate "tug of war" with helper once he strikes....asking helper to "take him for a ride" and swing him immediately on strike..back tied to a pole with high prey to take me out of equation in case I was causing conflict. He did seem to do better with a full sleeve. Also, he will not calmly hold sleeve after bite and not into calming strokes to keep his head up. He will run in one circle and usually go to ground and start chewing. I will usually run him in half circle, platz aus and take sleeve to avoid chewing on ground.

The only other solutions I can think of are possibly some table work...or start putting more pressure on him to see if he will drop into defense and see if it still happens.

This does not bother me terribly but I would like to fix if possible and I am concerned about it possibly transferring to dumb bell when I start that.

Again...please only offer experiences. If you haven't worked a dog or dealt with this issue do not offer internet theories.

Thanks in advance,
Eddie

Sent you a PM

Without video, I wouldn't mind your dog going in for a better grip once. But im not a judge. Chewy is something different. Curious if the DDR shows the most chewiness (is that a word?). More defense.....put more holes in it.

I wouldn't worry about this translating to the dumbbell. Your dog knows which collar he is wearing entering the field. They know which phase they're working every time. When is the last time your dog was waiting for the reward going into the field for protection, like he does when he knows it is obedience? Never! He wants to barrel out there and take his reward. Not saying a dog can't be chewy in both, but they would be for different reasons. The dumbbell is definitely not the sleeve to the dog.

As to the killing of the rabbit after the sleeve is slipped, I've only had one dog that did like you described, and it was a Dobe. All my shepherds would either carry it like a trophy or spit it out to get the helper. I didn't go the route that you did with the half circle. I went many circles and then would down and out. Helped, but never cured, but I had to put him down at 2 yrs, so who knows.

We were talking about it during training. Hearsay, but someone said Ivan stated he didn't care what his dog does after the sleeve is slipped. The sleeve is never slipped in a trial, so he can't be deducted for what his dog does in training. That made me laugh. I've trained with him, been to seminars, have even been lucky enough to do helper work at his seminar, and had a conversation about working a dog solely on defense, because at the time, that is what his philosophy was for protection. Have no idea what it is today, but that was my concern. Working a dog solely in defense would produce a chewy bite.

One of my favorite dogs to work was a buddy, and fellow club members Malinois. 60 lbs of mean. Couldn't get that sleeve far enough in his mouth. Always wanted more. I believe he thought if he tried hard enough, he'd actually get to the arm. Full and calm...ok. I like a dog wanting more. Chewy is one thing, but I like a dog that wants the get as much as he can. I'll let you in on a secret. Dogs don't know they're being graded. They don't know there are points being lost or given. They only know what they want, don't want, and the rules you set to get what they want.

So, to summarize, I'd crank up the E-collar and charge up the cattle prod.

go to 48 seconds and 1.17

dog is an extreme case of smashing the downed sleeve, head shaking etc, decoy not real good, scared of the dog.

Weird to see this kind of behavior out of a very high prey dog. I've got one right now that wants to constantly push in so what we're doing is throwing her on a bark table and teaching her to pull instead of push in. The grip stays full throughout but due to her pushing in rather than pulling back she looks like she's munching the sleeve. Would need to see video of what you and your helper do, working on you might help the dog calm more and possibly turn it more into a game of tug.

I wouldn't be swinging the dog around and doing all that...just try to make the dog pull more. Either on a table, or I've even noticed dragging them across a slippery board or carpet frustrates them enough to pull harder, there are helpers that use objects to get the dog a little more environmentally "concerned" and begin to pull...like putting them next to a wall or a fence...possibly back into the blind (although I would probably not want to mess with the blind for context).

I breed a pup myself very high prey drive 8 months now crushing grips but kept pushing forward . I put him on a table and used a pinch collar so taught very quickly to take the bite and when 2 paws were pulled of table pinch came into effect dog humps back your timeing has to be good. to get the bite the pull forward at the right time dont use to much power the pinch is to encourage a behavior not a punish hope this helps

By the way u can do this on a fly pole once u use a pinch on the dog same rules bring him out as far as he comes the pinch will make contact and he will want to hump back

Most of these dogs, that like to push into the grip also have a very high level of possession unless they bring the fight to the helper. My high prey female that is also very possessive will take everything to the floor and push into the sleeve or pillow and possess over it. My male, on the other hand, pushes into the helper, not out of possession. He doesn't have nearly as much possession as my female, because he loves to bring the fight to the helper. My female pushes into the grip, yet pulls more genetically. She didn't want to be cradled either, she never wanted to bring anything back, whether it was the helper or to me. She simply wanted to possess and had to learn the game before we could move on. She's also a rather angry little bitch.

Here is a little video of my male.

 

Athos von den Sturmfalken on Vimeo.

 

 

Thank you all for the responses. I guess my guy would be more of a "push in" and not chewey, and I do like the Idea of encouraging the "pull/hump back". Also why I was thinking some table training...only one way to go...back. While he likes to go to ground quickly...he will definitely bring it back to helper for more. I think going to ground is more out of boredom/frustration...wants more action. I could run him in three circles if I really tried but I do not see the point and he would still go to ground and not want to be cradled. To me it is better to keep it clean...go to ground controlled (platz) and quick clean out (aus) that will begin the game again. At this point, this little fella is all prey and I don't really think he is ready for a ton of pressure so I am thinking table is the way to go. Might not be hard to find a slippery surface either as I am looking at three feet of snow right now! I might try the back tie and work a prong separate myself to encourage him to pull back on helper. I can get helper to go to ground and dramatically get pulled in by the dog also. I will keep you posted.

Being chained to a table with nowhere to go will keep him totally in Prey?