Rage Syndrome in a German Shepherd Dog? - Page 2

WAGSDS, thanks for the explanation not a nice situation to be in. Like Swarnendu I too thought along the same lines of epilepsy, hope other members can chime in with some help and advise for you.

Luna, you shouldn' t believe in tell tales. .
"Rage" syndroms may be possible in our breed / in case of neurological disorder, but the only GS dog I wasn't able to "understand" came up with a brain tumor...

All the best to you and your dog-whatever you will do, it's not easy.

WAGS, I read JonRob's post and in the article he included, it was mentioned these dogs will get a "look" in their eye. That is true, I saw that "look" and that is why I was prepared and able to prevent a serious attack on my friend. I was a dumb kid and thought he was being protective in that state, and not out of control dangerous. Since there was a sudden change with NO provocation, it is only in my later maturity that I can realize how dangerous the situation could have been.

And yes, my dog's death was in a time before leash laws and dogs roaming at night was common. Such a thing would never be allowed today. The odd thing is, is that dog choose my mother as his favorite, I was probably the second. When he pinned my brother to the wall with his front paws and had his teeth bared at his throat, though, there was never a question who my mother would protect, even if we might have rationalized that the dog was "protecting" her.

Also, just for information purposes, the dog was not old, I am guessing around 2 years old that this began. I don't envy you, your predicament.

Wow, I am very sorry, WAGSDS. That is very sad. I know I would be devastated if this happened to my fur baby! Again, I am very sorry.

Just a thought, but a trainer in Los Angeles, well known for his work with aggressive dogs (Brandon Fouche)...says don't play ball/ chase, as it can worsen aggression (causing frustration for some dogs).

Hi All

Here's my story so far....

My male gsd is almost seven years old, I got him at eight weeks old.
He lives with two female shepherds aged 8 and 6.

He is thee most loving and obedient boy.
He has never had issues with resource guarding or aggression and is happy in the company of the females, he plays nicely and if anything is a bit of a wuss!!..... however.....

When he was two years old he began having issues when waking from sleep.
At the time he slept at night in the kitchen with the younger female and on two occassions my husband and I awoke to hear the female screaming and dashed out of bed to find him launching a full attack on her.... luckily we live in a bungalow so we were only a room away.
Each time we had to drag him off the top of her, she didn't even try to defend herself... he was crazy and seemed oblivious to our sudden presence in the room.

We decided that perhaps she had annoyed him in some way or woken /startled him,..we were never in there to see the trigger..... so we started separating them at night..... this we hoped would be the end of the problem.... and for a long time it was.

In every other way he continued to be our normal loving boy and we saw no further issues for a while..... the girls played with him every day and didn't fear him.... they still don't.... I will never understand that either.

Then one evening when we were all watching t.v in the lounge we witnessed this behaviour for ourselves..... he was dozing by the fire and the females were also in the room sleeping.
He lifted his head and opened his eyes.... but they were glazed and his pupils were dilated... in literally seconds he had ran ( and I mean he really ran!!)across the room and grabbed one of the females by the face... we hardly had time to even get out of our chairs.... he was that quick!!.
The attack was short.... perhaps 30 seconds....no more than... but it was savage, like nothing I have ever seen before.
Afterwards his eyes just softened and then he was just back in the room again... looking a little confused but not aggressive at all.

My female needed a couple of stitches in her wound and my vet gave him a check over but found nothing physically wrong... she asked me what I wanted to do..... we both agreed that any reoccurrence would be a cause for concern.... that was that.

My dog went on to attack both of the females again on two separate occasions... the attacks were always identical in nature....taking place immediately on waking from sleep.... a deep deep sleep....and totally unprovoked.... in fact he would charge at them and attack them as they slept.... it was always the one that was in his immediate line of sight when he opened his eyes that got hurt.
The symptoms were always the same...a brief deep growling noise straight from his gut. glazed eyes, dilated pupils, body stiffness before he launched at them, short in duration but incredibly horrible levels of rage.... and an apparent unawareness after the event, with him immediately wanting to lick the wounds he just inflicted on his best buddies.

Fast forward to now....after much reading, I presented my vet with the possibility that he had rage syndrome.... after all he didn't have an aggressive bone in his body... and although these attacks were unpredictable... they were predictable in the fact that they always happened in the very same way and same circumstances.
Sadly.... my vet didn't really believe that Rage Syndrome really existed and leaned more towards some sort of epilepsy.
My dog is currently waiting to be seen by a neurologist...the insurance are arguing the toss about paying for an MRI scan because of his shows of aggression so we are trying to save the money ourselves.
My house now has gates on every internal door, he isn't allowed to sleep /doze or get too relaxed in the same room as the other dogs..it's like musical dogs in the evening so that we can spend time with them all and keep them safe at the same time..
Whilst he is awake and alert he is the same beautiful loving boy he has always been..... he has never bitten or offered to bite any person and has never resisted myself or my husband when we have grabbed him during these episodes..... but the change can be clearly seen in the eyes, it is a seizure of some sort and I have no doubt that during it he has no knowledge of his actions and no control..... when it subsides he is tired and subdued and acts like he has been scolded.

I love him dearly.... and want to do everything I can for him..... if I exhaust every avenue and the epilepsy drugs that the vet suggests do not reduce or eradicate his symptoms.... then I guess euthanasia will be the eventual outcome..... that's real hard to think about.
Until then I shall continue to manage him the way I have for the last almost 5 years....always being aware of where he is and what he is doing, always airing on the side of caution, keeping him safe and separate when he sleeps and muzzling him outdoors.
Sure.... I've seen him wake from sleep and run at the dog gate... glazed and stiff and angry.... sure I have to speak to him before I enter a room in case he just woke up....but we manage and everybody is ok.
It's not the life he deserves, he is such an adorable loving boy.... but something isn't right in his mind when he sleeps deeply
Does rage syndrome exist in the GSD?.... I believe it does.

I really hope things work out okay for you.)

Anyone who has seen a rage syndrome attack (I have) knows that it is not a training or behavior issue. It is a lot like a seizure (seen those too) in that the dog has no control over what is happening. Something just goes haywire in the dog's brain and the dog becomes insanely aggressive.

My heart goes out to you folks who are dealing with this. It is unbelievably dangerous and almost always requires euthanasia of the dog. Anti-seizure meds have been tried for this. They did not work for the two cases I knew best but they might work for your dogs.

The danger/liability issues here are horrific though. All it takes is a gate or door left open and the result can be a savagely mauled neighbor's kid.

This condition is one of the most heartbreaking things I have ever seen. The dog is fine most of the time and often exceptionally charming and sweet. Having to euthanize a beloved dog for this is devastating. It seems like we ought to be able to fix it but we usually can't and the dog becomes more and more dangerous as he gets older.

I would rather deal with DM, hip dysplasia, inflammatory GI disease -- just about anything -- rather than rage syndrome.

OMG ! Like I said earlier, not something I ever had to deal with, even with the large numbers of GSD I have been involved with; but it seems that what I also said, about this syndrome maybe having been around for many years, without recognition, could also be true. Some of what is described rings distinct bells among the odd cases I have been told about over the years. Pity therefore that this sort of in-depth recording of the circumstances is less frequent ! The 'deep sleep' factor is particularly interesting. Hopefully someone with a lot of first hand experience of epilepsy will comment/compare/contrast ?
SEZ'71, I really feel for you ! TY JonRob also, for describing the couple of cases you know about. We can only hope that, in proportion to the huge numbers of GSDs there are in the world, that this remains very much a minority affliction in our breed; just what we needed, yet another thing to worry about in case it is hereditary !!!
I do hope someone with the facilities and interest to do a research study on this takes it up soon, if only to eventually change the situation where some vets do not accept that it even exists as a separate 'syndrome' in Shepherds. I know there are such studies already on Rage in Cockers and Springers, but clearly there needs to be more take-up in interest and cross-referencing medically.

WAGSDS..... The fact that there was a break in the attack when your dog left your husband and came and sat for you... and then it escalated again somewhat differs from what I have experienced.Also your dog hadn't been resting prior to the episode,quite the opposite in fact.
My dogs attacks are ALWAYS after he has been sleeping, they are brief and explosive and when he comes out of an attack he never attempts to attack again....when it's over it's over.
We may go months between them or have one or two just weeks apart.... it's totally random.
My boy has a stiffness in his body and his tail is raised and slightly wagging seconds before his rage hits.... but it's seconds only and there is no time to avert the situation.... essentially for the next 30-60 seconds he is not my dog.
I have witness it many times with him and the best way to describe it is possession.... something horrible and uncontrollable is happening in his brain.... it is so horrible that sometimes I think he may just drop down dead in front of me from the rush of chemicals.
The sadness is when he comes back out of it, the confusion, the distress and utter exhaustion he feels.
I don't know what a neurologist sees on an MRI to diagnose this.... or even if it is conclusive.... but I do know it needs looking into way more than it has been so far.
My vet asked me to record it on my phone!!.... she clearly has no idea how sudden and dangerous these seizures are... there ain't no time or inclination to grab your cameraphone.
I'd just like for it to be acknowledge as existing in the GS, I know what I have experienced and it's some sort of electrical seizure in the brain..... the dog is in a trance like semi conscious state when it occurs.

Having a truly vicious aggressive dog euthanised would be slightly easier than what I will eventually have to face.... euthanising a much loved boy who's greatest joy in life has always been pleasing his owners and playing fetch with his pack.
A dog who never so much as nipped me in excitement or showed me any bolshy behaviour.
The trouble is you have to consider what the outcome might be if you miss the signs one time, if you don't have the dog contained, if the dog starts to do this when in a conscious state, if the signs change and you're not prepared... because once will almost certainly be once too many... the stakes are high.
My husband and I have promised ourselves that if we or anybody else is hurt that's the end for him...so far so good...the regimental procedures have so far avoided anything too serious..... but I am constantly worried that the risk is too great and the pressure to always have him in a safe contained space is enormous. It remains to be seen if this will worsen with age... he is 7 in April.
It's too late after the event to tell yourself you should of destroyed the dog.

That's the true heartbreak here.

If this condition is in any way connected to seizures, yes this can become worse with age. So very sorry, not something you want to wait and watch for. Just an absolute heartbreaker. I am sure you will make the right decision for your animal. Only familiar with this condition in Cockers/English Springers, but do know seizures are fairly common in the GSD. Sad state of affairs for our breed. Take care Nan

PS: Personally I would be a bit fearful for my safety as well as others. Definitely a huge liability. So sorry. Nan