Sable puppy showing in AKC - Page 4

Yes , I am a Scot, and I noticed my spelling mistake as soon as I posted. I do aplogise to The Clan Moncreiffe !
Thanks for all the info. It's very interesting to hear from ' old timers' (no offence intended) with knowledge gained from actual experience as opposed to hear say.

Should read apologise !!!

Les, I got emails from the AKC saying that the WDA is no longer established and all shows are now under the GSDCA.

Les, did you really try to tell me the difference between regular coat, long stock coat, and long coat? 
After owning a lot of stock coats my latest male was a long stock coat... Sorry I presumed everybody is aware about the difference long stock coat / long coat.

The owner of "Roxy" seems to be Bulgarian, English is not his first language, neither it´s mine...

But for someone that "picky" about words, you shouldn´t call the long stock coat a "different" or "2." breed, not even the "long coat" - it´s "one" breed; long coat without undercoat is called a fault ( not suitable for breeding ), the long stock coat is allowed for several years now ( has been before, was forbidden, allowed again ), but they do compete in own classes in my country.

Even "long coat" puppies without undercoat do get a pedigree, they are still German Shepherd dogs, but they are not allowed for breeding. They are "faulty", but they are German Shepherd dogs...

Further on there are not only " 2 reasons " to show a dog - at least in my country it´s about breeding requirements, and for a lot of people it´s still simply about fun, get together, and experience...
Not everybody is interested in breeding/selling/promoting - there are individuals able to have fun with their dog, only because they like the dog and the breed...

The puppy of the OP is a regular stock coat out of European/mostly German working lines.
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2485687-knallharts-fatal-beauty

She looks healthy and happy, some of her ancestors do have a pretty good conformation according to the SV standard. Right now it´s way to soon to tell the OP what to do besides "training".

In the United States GSDCA ( not WDA any more ) and USA do judge the German Shepherd dog shows according to the German SV standard, that said the dog has to be well trained and prepared - everything else?

I ( as a German ) would train and title this dog, waiting for the adult dog class ( SV style ), doing a lot of show training in the meanwhile. I hate underrated working lines, only because they are not well trained.

I don´t know anything about "AKC" shows, but I guess a "medium" angulated dog won´t have much chances in their shows, no matter the color.

Susie thanks for the info as I am just starting out. A friend who lives in Florida says Beauty would do well in the SV style shows. There aren't alot around here. I'm out most everyday doing some show training and obedience with her. Most of my friends are older & dont train or show their own dogs anymore but they help me out alot. So any suggestions would be helpful. Thank you

[Reliya] 4.6.2016 - 16:06

● "Les, I got emails from the AKC saying that the WDA is no longer established and all shows are now under the GSDCA."
From my disinterested distance I didn't think the WDA ever held "shows" - their interest being in the training & testing. I thought that conformation points towardc the WDA's Universal Sieger title came from the GSDCAmerica's national show.
But as the AKC neither reads nor writes English, who knows what they meant? I've written to the WDA so will wait to see what reply emerges from there.
Meantime, note the Standard on the WDA's web-site:
http://www.gsdca-wda.org/documents/pdf/standard/gsd23122010.pdf
USCA has

http://www.germanshepherddog.com/about/german-shepherd-dogs/breed-standards/

- so might be next to be dis-established.

 

[susie] 4.6.2016 - 17:06
● "Les, did you really try to tell me the difference between regular coat, long stock coat, and long coat?  "

Nein, nicht ich. Even when replying to a quote, I am addressing the widest possible audience. It goes with the career I chose after the air force declined to accept me as a trainee for radar - I taught (or attempted to!).
I assume that words not deleted are liable to be looked at by next week's visitors, next year's visitors.

● "I presumed everybody is aware about the difference long stock coat / long coat."
You have no idea how IGNORANT a huge section of "everybody" is! Look at the pretend "standards" of The KC(UK), the AKC, the CKC, the NZKC. See any indication there that those supposedly-aware officials KNOW the difference between an LSH and an LH?

● "But for someone that "picky" about words, you shouldn´t call the long stock coat a "different" or "2." breed, not even the "long coat" - it´s "one" breed; long coat without undercoat is called a fault ( not suitable for breeding ), the long stock coat is allowed for several years now ( has been before, was forbidden, allowed again ), but they do compete in own classes in my country."
Oh yes I SHOULD, thanks to the wording chosen by the SV and accepted by the WUSV.
Click
http://www.nzkc.org.nz/dogselect.html
and the first ▼ then scroll down to the "German" breeds and notice the 3rd & 4th BREEDS.
Click
http://ankc.org.au/Breed/Index/5?Search.ItemsPerPage=10&Search.GroupID=5&page=2
then scroll down to the TWO BREEDS starting with "German".

● "Even "long coat" puppies without undercoat do get a pedigree, they are still German Shepherd dogs, but they are not allowed for breeding. They are "faulty", but they are German Shepherd dogs..."
Here they are either GSDs (Stock Coat) (that word "Dogs" IS an integral part of the breed's name, just as "hund" is in Deutsche) or GSDs (Long Stock Coat). Each BREED has separate CCs (it takes at least 8 Ccs under at least 6 different judges to become a show Ch. in NZ). In the UK (non-member of the FCI) the GSDs are still one breed - except at the BSE - and so LSHs and LHs can compete against SHs, but most owners realise that their chances are effectively nill so don't waste their time & money. The exception is when their club holds a "Specials" class for LSHs - but I'm told that the clubs that have done so are VERY disappointed by how few entries those classes saw.

● "Further on there are not only " 2 reasons " to show a dog - at least in my country it´s about breeding requirements, and for a lot of people it´s still simply about fun, get together, and experience...
Not everybody is interested in breeding/selling/promoting - there are individuals able to have fun with their dog, only because they like the dog and the breed..."
Each to their taste. Listening to sound-tracks of BSZS videos, the cheers and excitements seem to be reserved for silly things such as Javir Talka Marda's "shall I nip your ear, Mum?" when he flips up & back to sit at heel.

● "The puppy of the OP"
Please don't use the term "OP" - either NAME the person or NAME the pooch.

● "In the United States GSDCA ( not WDA any more ) and USA do judge the German Shepherd dog shows according to the German SV standard"
I might start believing that, 3 generations after the GSDCAmerica has the AKC publish FCI#166 as its Standard of the GSD.
http://www.gsdca.org/Noframes/standard/IllStan1.htm  
will take you to the GSDCAmerica's Illustrated Standard prior to about 2010. Note  what it almost instantly switches you to before you have time to study the drawings - the "modern" photos do NOT match the drawings. I still use one of the original drawings, to show people the 3 CORRECT positions of the hindquarters.
And PLEASE don't type "USA" when you mean USCA - the nation is USA, the club is USCA unless it changes its name to remove the C-word.

● "I ( as a German ) would train and title this dog"

I HOPE you are not mis-using the word "title" the way almost all dog-sport people do. A TITLE goes in front of the name:
Baron, Bischof, Champion, Kaiser, Kapitän, Königin, President, Prinzessin, Sieger & Siegerin.
The letters such as BSc, BVM, CDX, FH, HGH, IPO, PhD that go after a name are QUALIFICATIONS.

● "I don´t know anything about "AKC" shows, but I guess a "medium" angulated dog won´t have much chances in their shows"
Ditto for the BSZS this millennium. I LOATHE seeing a dog's rear knee closer to the ground than its rear heel is. I also LOATHE seeing a dog's loin slope at the 22½° angle that the croup is supposed to lie at (but that dog's croup is, of course, closer to 40° from horizontal!). Down with Hermann Martin and his disciples! Dr Funk and Dr Rummel were the last SV presidents to try to keep the athletic, medium-angled GSD going. I didn't see Herr Hutter judge in NZ, but he gave Best Dog to the sire of my obedience bitch, and Best Bitch to the dam of 2 of my purchases and granddam of my eventual foundation brood.
Have "fun" working through

http://www.louisdonald.com/problems-in-the-german-shepherd-dog---a-response.html

Les, I thought about "coloring" my post like you do, but, honestly, I am too lazy...

 

Initially a friendly lady asked:

"Hello , kinda new but would like to ask about showing my sable girl in AKC. I keep hearing from different people that sables dont do well in AKC . Why is that? Or is that even true? There is a show coming up at the end of June here in the Richmond area. Thanks"

Several people answered in a kind manner, although there was a confusion about the coat length of the pup in question. All of them made their own experiences or observations within AKC, GSDCA, USC(!)A, SV, perfectly fine.

Why do you start to nitpick on any word said, pointing out any single poster? It´s useless, and it´s rude.

You are the one who referred to FCI standard 166, nobody else besides me ( because I am German...)

I am only speaking for myself now, the OFFICIAL translation for "Deutscher Schäferhund" is "German Shepherd dog", NOT "German Shepherd". You don´t like it? Tell the SV...

"Stock coat" and "long stock coat" are VERSIONS of coat lengths, but it´s ONE breed according to SV and FCI standard. German SV is not responsible for any "standards" written outside of FCI,

and within SV any long coat without under coat, blue, liver, or white German Shepherd dog, as long as bred out of pedigreed, titled, and breed surveyed parents, will remain a German Shepherd dog within SV and FCI, NOT allowed for breeding, but still a German Shepherd dog.

Titles - qualifications? I am German, so I am not sure, but all my American friends say "titling/title", and at school I learned that I may "qualify" FOR something - in "my world" ( and in the world of all sport enthusiasts I ever met ) they don´t try to qualify for something, they want to title their dogs...might be wrong.

"OP" = "individual poster" = someone who starts a thread = common parlance.

"USA" / "USCA" : Sorry for that - in "former times" the term "Schutzhund USA" was common, and that´s what I remembered - my fault...

Your "quote" from me: "I don´t know anything about "AKC" shows, but I guess a "medium" angulated dog won´t have much chances in their shows"...

You don´t need to "ditto" that, and start to tell me about SV shows, because on page ONE I already said:

" It´s not mainly about the color, but about the structure. Most sables are "European working lines", their structure doesn´t fit to the AKC standard - that said, they will have problems ( and structure wise a lot of working lines do have problems in my country, too )."

"Javir Talka Marda" ? What are you dreaming about? Training, titling, showing German Shepherd dogs is done because it´s fun for more than 100 years now, a "G" rated dog, be it on a local show or at a local club trial, is "breedworthy" = "fitting to the standard", as soon as health tests, and breed survey are done. Don´t tell me that you belong to all of these "outlanders" ( sorry ) who only believe in "winners" - that´s way too easy.

I think it´s nice you came over here, we do need experienced people ( did you breed your dogs according to SV standard/titles or according to NZ standard ? ), but it´s not nice to behave like a "I know it all", there are enough people of this kind already.

I tried to answer some of the OPs questions via PM, because within this thread it became useless. Hopefully some AKC enthusiasts will help, too. Everybody who is interested in "our" breed deserves as much help as possible, no matter the country, no matter the club.

Just my thoughts, sorry

Susie

 

Curses - I had almost finished f0rmatting this then the computer switched to a different address without saving where I was up to....

 

[Reliya] 4.6.2016 - 16:06
After the WDA's first response to my query vanished before I could find & open it, I tried again. Your information is correct, and the GSDCAmerica and the WDA are busy suing each other. GREAT way to promote our superb breed! Time will tell what the outcome will be, but I doubt that it is likely to be one where the GSDCAmerica decides to pass FCI#166 to the AKC as THE Standard to use for GSDs. Which may drive the WDA people to abandon the GSDCAmerica and transfer completely to the USCA. Don't Yanks LOVE suing one another!

[susie] 7.6.2016 - 19:06

● "Les, I thought about "coloring" my post like you do, but, honestly, I am too lazy..."
Honesty is said to be a virtue. I've never heard claims that laziness is a virtue.
I use whatever techniques are available to me in order to COMMUNICATE. Colours and sizes worked well with most pre-teen children. (Does ANYTHING work with teenagers???)
If you and your contacts can communicate with plain-text, that's fine.
Stingy YahooAnswers with the incompetent programmers that Marissa Mayer has been employing for about 4 years is the only place where I WILLINGLY use plain-text. I LOATHE web-forms !

● "All of them made their own experiences or observations within AKC, GSDCA, USC(!)A, SV, perfectly fine."
THERE - those last 2 words - we part company.
The AKC and the GSDCAmerica (please always state WHICH "GSDCA" you refer to - the GSDCAustralia is very progressive and has successfully combined with Australia's Rottweiler clubs to convince the ANKC that breeds won't thrive unless there are RESTRICTIONS as to which pooches can have litters registered. The GSDCAmerica either has not attempted it or has dismally failed) do NOT promote the GSD as it is "seen" by members of USCA and the WDA. They don't even have the same written Standard. The WDA's standard is the current FCI#166. I haven't looked at the USCA Standard for a few years - last time I'm pretty sure they had the 1991 WUSV Standard.
As any boat builder or house builder will tell you, if the blueprints are different, so will be what's built based on those blueprints.

● "Why do you start to nitpick on any word said, pointing out any single poster? It´s useless, and it´s rude."
#1: Obviously you'd be surprised at what a small percentage of the errors *I* notice get a corrective comment. Noticing errors is what competent teachers learn to do.
#2: Teaching points are "useless" to only those who decide to take no notice of what I point out.
#3: I cannot prevent people from considering it rude when it affects them personally - but I trained as an educator, not as a politician, and as any educator will inform you, educators quickly become used to casting their pearls before real swine.

● "You are the one who referred to FCI standard 166, nobody else besides me ( because I am German...)"
You overlook the point that when a bare "the Standard" or "our Standard" is stated (as WAS done in this thread), what the people who believe in the wisdom of The KC(UK) think of is different to what those who believe in the wisdom of the AKC think of, which is different to what those who believe in the wisdom of the NZKC think of, which is different to what those who believe in the wisdom of the WUSV think of. And so what each of those groups of "believers" actually "build" and regard as a GSD is different to what the others "build" and regard as a GSD. The purpose in developing the EUSV and then Dr Rummell extending it to be the WUSV (he invited my local GSD club to join it in June 1973, before the EUSV agreed on 9 September 1974 to the extension) can be seen as either an attempt to have the SV "Rule the world of GSDs", or as a way to have everything that is registered as a GSD BE worthy of the breed's name instead of there being AlsatiOns, Banana-Backs, German Crouchers, Hyaena Dogs, NAmerican Ski-Slope Dogs, "Panda"-Shepherds, Teeth-on-Feet, Titanic Tail-Tuckers, White Shepherds, and Just-Plain-Craps ALL registered as GSDs

● "I am only speaking for myself now, the OFFICIAL translation for "Deutscher Schäferhund" is "German Shepherd dog", NOT "German Shepherd". You don´t like it? Tell the SV..."
You are simply wrong.
The current English version of FCI#166 was translated by the SV. It obeys English rules for punctuating proper nouns. Deutsche has different punctuation rules. Deutsche also combines the words "schäfer" and "hund" to give the single word "Schäferhund", whereas English separates the 2-words of "Deutscher Schäferhund" into the 3 words of "German Shepherd Dog".
But for you to SEE that you must not go to
http://www.fci.be/Nomenclature/Standards/166g01-de.pdf
- you must go to
http://www.fci.be/Nomenclature/Standards/166g01-en.pdf
and read through the first 3 pages to see that NOT ONCE is "German Shepherd dog" printed. Instead you will see:
GERMAN SHEPHERD DOG (Deutscher Schäferhund)
TRANSLATION: Verein für Deutsche Schäferhunde (SV) E.V. / Original version: (D).
Society for the German Shepherd Dog
German Shepherd Dog
World Union of German Shepherd Dog Clubs (WUSV)
German Shepherd Dog
German Shepherd Dog

● ""Stock coat" and "long stock coat" are VERSIONS of coat lengths, but it´s ONE breed according to SV and FCI standard. German SV is not responsible for any "standards" written outside of FCI"
Of course it isn't.
But it IS responsible for wordings it presents to the WUSV for approval. It IS responsible for the way it maintains it breed register. It IS responsible for the way it organises its conformation classes.

So why does it have one set of age-classes for SHs aka "Double Coats", and a separate set of age-classes for LSHs aka "Long and Harsh Outer Coats"?

Are "pink" pedigrees available for pups who have one SH parent, one LSH parent? If they are, is there any indication that the intention is to allow that "forever", or that there is an intention to ban such cross-breedings after a few years? I've written to ask my SV contact about these things, but she is a busy woman and could takes ages to reply. So I'm "boxing on" without her reply.

● "and within SV any long coat without under coat, blue, liver, or white German Shepherd dog, as long as bred out of pedigreed, titled, and breed surveyed parents, will remain a German Shepherd dog within SV and FCI, NOT allowed for breeding, but still a German Shepherd dog."

I've long been under the impression that, as of the 5 Sept., 1930 conference of Executive Committee and Board at Wiesbaden, self-whites weren't registerable except as Alt Deutschers.
Your claim certainly makes it easy to understand why so many producers of blue, liver, self-tan or self-white remain as Spitzen-Vs and VAs. Even Gregor Mendel could have told the SV that it won't get rid of the b^, d^, e^ alleles while it allows carriers to mate other carriers. As those 3 alleles are now DNA-identified, the SV SHOULD be allowing carriers to mate non-carriers for maybe a decade, after which carriers are verboten.

● "Titles - qualifications? I am German, so I am not sure, but all my American friends say "titling/title", and at school I learned that I may "qualify" FOR something - in "my world" ( and in the world of all sport enthusiasts I ever met ) they don´t try to qualify for something, they want to title their dogs...might be wrong.
You are not wrong about what DogSport addicts "want" and what Americans SAY - it is well-known that Yanks (whether damn' Yankees or Johnny Rebs at heart) ignore English. "The Scotch and the Irish leave you close to tears. There even are places where English completely disappears. Well, in America, they haven't used it for years!" as per https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAYUuspQ6BY
But the FACT is that titles are what go in front of names, and qualifications are firstly EARNED and then go AFTER the names, as with
President  Barack Hussein Obama  B.A., J.D.
Sieger 2011-12 VA1  Remo vom Fichtenschlag  SchH3,  Kkl.1
Field Marshall Prince  Charles Windsor  B.A.
Chancellor  Angela Dorothea Merkel  B.Sc., Ph.D. (I'm not going to track down the Deutsche initials for her degrees, so have used the English ones.)

● ""OP" = "individual poster" = someone who starts a thread = common parlance."
The would be "EP" in Deutsche, "IP" in English - not "OP".
But who wants to be "common"?
As for "OP" - I gather you'll be surprised by the main meanings:
http://www.acronymfinder.com/OP.html
In my wife's case, "OP" was "Other People's" while she was pretending to give up smoking, by smoking only "Other People's" cigarettes - lots more people smoked 30 years ago and she never actually quit smoking.
But the weakness of using the "OP" abbreviation is that it is so indefinite. The person's actual name or ID is much more helpful to enable us to check back and see what context statements were originally in.

As for the OP - she was delighted by my semi-critique of her bitch, which - not being a NAmerican Ski-Slope Dog judge - I critiqued as a GSD, much as I believe the late Dr Walter Gorrieri (Italy) would have (his drawing showing the outline & skeleton of a GSD that exactly fits the Standard was widely used in Australia and NZ before the influence of Hermann Martin saw the German Croucher take over). I am now waiting for her to find where she hid her computer so that she can find out what members of one of my e-groups thinks of her bitch. Perhaps she is as worried about her end-of-June show as I am worried about getting a Warrant of Fitness for my manual ute (that I was last able to drive on 24 April 2015, before "they" started cutting bits off my clutch leg and left me unable to step out of my house - I had to be carried in & out by a pair of ambulance men each time for the first 6 or so months) so that I can get my local garage owner to drive it & me to look at the automatic utes I now need one of and do a trade-in deal. The rush is because Bea's breeder has to be only about 90 minutes away from me on Thursday 30 June instead of her normal 4¼ hours away, and has offered to return Bea (who also hasn't seen me since 24.4.2015). Which means I need to be able to DRIVE to the butcher's for dog meats, and DRIVE Bea to a couple of places where it is flat (I have a VERY steep drive and have hobbled up & down it only 1½ times since getting my prosthetic, and it is PERFECT for her to pull me off my feet if she sees one of the many stray cats that hunt in this area). Which means that I need to have a fully licensed & registered old ute by the 24th so that my garage chap can drive me on the 25th to choose my next transport.

The first drawing in
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/The_GSD_Source/photos/albums/161016253
is a coloured version of Dr. Gorrieri's illustration (that group is NOT a discussion group).

Half-way down
http://www.louisdonald.com/archives-1986-the-great-debate---a-question-of-type.html
is a Dr Gorrieri "sable" drawing without the skeleton showing.

Those who have time to work through the 41-page article by Louis Donald (effectively a protege of Dr Gorrieri) should be prepared to grit their teeth about the photos of "top GSDs" standing with their rear knee lower than that leg's heel, placed amid a series of Gorrieri-based drawings with their knees correctly higher than their heels and their forward heel well clear oif the ground:
http://www.gsdcouncilaustralia.org/gsdcacontent/uploads/2015/03/louis_donald_article1-reduced.pdf

● ""USA" / "USCA" : Sorry for that - in "former times" the term "Schutzhund USA" was common, and that´s what I remembered - my fault..."
More the fault of the many USCA members who still tweely write "USA" instead of "USCA". If they want to be "USA" they need an AGM to re-name the organisation.

● "Your "quote" from me: "I don´t know anything about "AKC" shows, but I guess a "medium" angulated dog won´t have much chances in their shows"...
You don´t need to "ditto" that, and start to tell me about SV shows, because on page ONE I already said:
 " It´s not mainly about the color, but about the structure. Most sables are "European working lines", their structure doesn´t fit to the AKC standard - that said, they will have problems ( and structure wise a lot of working lines do have problems in my country, too )."
I don't CARE whether they fit the AKC pretend-"Standard". I care whether they fit the INTERNATIONAL Standard. I don't remember anything in the GSDCAm/AKC rebel "Standard" that would disqualify a genuine GSD. But there is plenty in FCI#166 to disqualify pooches that AKC judges happily promote. The problem isn't FCI#166 - it's the way so many many MANY NAmerican breeders and judges seek exaggerations.

● ""Javir Talka Marda" ? What are you dreaming about? Training, titling, showing German Shepherd dogs is done because it´s fun for more than 100 years now, a "G" rated dog, be it on a local show or at a local club trial, is "breedworthy" = "fitting to the standard", as soon as health tests, and breed survey are done. Don´t tell me that you belong to all of these "outlanders" ( sorry ) who only believe in "winners" - that´s way too easy."
Is it dreaming to believe that a pooch that gains high points (V) at both the BSZS event and the PreisHüteSieger event is superior to a pooch that can perform well at only one of them?
Living in a country where, until relatively recently, sheep (meat and wool) were our most important export, I am aware that there are few farmers nowadays willing to loan their flocks for use in a PHS contest. but even so, the Universal Sieger title that Javir (and 3 of my "Queen Miriam''s GSDs) earned from a conformation contest followed by a training contest is better than either of the 2 contests' separate siegers. I haven't seem a lot of Javir progeny & grandprogeny in the "news" - but that happens to some BSZS Siegers and some IPO/SchH Siegers, too.

As for the IPO/SchH training - you are welcome to find it "fun", but you need only look at Australia, Britain, Canada, New Zealand, the USA and work out the percentage of GSD owners (and BSD, Rottweiler, etc owners) who qualify their stock in IPO/SchH compared to the percentage who DON'T, to realise that the relatively high percentage of GSDs that compete in DogSport where you are is due to #1 a little bit of pride in being able to get a dog to operate as a partner and #2 a LOT of compulsion if the owner wants to breed from the GSD or campaign it to gain V at LGSchauen and aim for VA at the BSZS.

● "I think it´s nice you came over here, we do need experienced people ( did you breed your dogs according to SV standard/titles or according to NZ standard ? ), but it´s not nice to behave like a "I know it all", there are enough people of this kind already."
From 1968 to about mid-1972 we bred by what won in NZKC rings - a mixture of AlsatiOn and Prick-Eared Basset. And then the breeders of our High Clear bitches (who owned the first dog AND first bitch to be awarded an SV Gold Medal - that was under Herr Philip Hutter in 1967) showed me photos of Heiko Oranien Nassau
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/GSDAC_Committee/info?yguid=70025627
The difference drove me to the GSD books I had bought, and the eventual decision was that "AlsatiOn/Prick-Eared Basset is WRONG, Deutsche Schäferhund is right". And as of February 1976 we abandoned the all-breeds ring - although Bea & I were there the day her sister completed her CH. title just 2 miles from my home (Jo-Jo is still waiting for the 1-more all-breeds Best In Show win needed to join her sire as a Grand Ch.).

● "I tried to answer some of the OPs questions via PM, because within this thread it became useless. Hopefully some AKC enthusiasts will help, too. Everybody who is interested in "our" breed deserves as much help as possible, no matter the country, no matter the club."
It depends on whether the help is to #1 help them realise what their pooch's flaws and virtues are, or to #2 "help" them accept that kennel club show-judges are the "true prophets" as to what a GSD should be. I'm against #2, preferring to  educate that although preferences for aspects that remain WITHIN the International Standard are okay, preferences for exaggerations or other aspects that lie OUTSIDE the International Standard are NOT okay.

 

Erm , Les & Susie: could you two be arguing at cross purposes, not over the presence or absence of the word "DOG" but on whether it has an upper or lower case "D" ???

It's a silly thing to argue about either way.