Sportism - Page 27

Oops! GSDFan! We posted at same time.. Have to read and study what you just wrote. I might need edits to my post, then! Thanks for your reply. 😊

I have since made edits. Who knows, there might be even more coming. I do want to be correct and fair.

Well, no wonder there are those who poo-poo PSA sport! It is damn hard to pass and takes up lots of time. One would have to love training to commit all the time needed to do this crazy stuff! Nevermind just being the handler!

I have to guess— for a PSA1... does one need at least a 75 in OB to move on to the next necessary phase (Pro Score)? I am not sure what the difference in scoring might be between PSA1 and PSA1 Open. Seems to be something different going on there. At two day trials, there are multiple opportunities to enter a dog, and one can move quickly through the beginner trial steps if one passes all the pre-requisite steps. The tougher trials and titles, though, can take multiple attempts to pass. For instance Varo titled for PSA1 Open with 86 OB, 184 PRO, for total 220 points on 11/17/02, after doing a 72 in OB the day before. But, the PSA1 he trialed at a later date, 2/8/03 was not a pass. GSD Kelly was being trialed, too, at the same time, but was denied the title as well. Later making the attempt to pass for the PSA2 on 8/23 with a 75 OB and 95.5 PRO. Still going for that PSA2 well into 2004, but not quite able to pass, so an award is certainly going to be welcomed and appreciated even without earning the title—no doubt about that!

Why would one need both a PSA1 and PSA1 Open, title? Doesn't "open" just relate to breed entries? Wouldn't a pass in either be equal to each other? (BTW...The only dog named Fox seems to be a successful HOT malinois, no mention of HBB/Prager.)

And then I imagine the PSA PDC (Protection Dog Certificate) is the HOLY GRAIL of all designations, and at the rate it was taking Handler Hans with a good dog like Varo to make progressive accomplishments, it would be impossible to give the care needed to all his other dogs, not to mention Varo would be getting passed his prime in the meantime? Just not a good return rate, if one thinks in terms of an investment. This stuff is best left for people who find it a labor of love. 

I don't think it is just the sports equipment issue re: targeting, that is driving this bus against so called, "sportism", no-sirree, not me.

No tracking in PSA ? And what about retrieving? Sch has three parts and one must pass all three to get a title.
Anyway, good research, bee.
Again, kudos to handler hans.

There have been some changes to the rules and regs since the early days of the sport.  Different requirements for entering Nationals etc.  There arent any open or novice classes anymore.

 

There is retrieving in the 2's and 3's and its an object chosen by the judge, can be almost anything.

PSA is a 2 phase sport, but there are other challenges like suited decoys on the field during obedience (creating increasing amts of distraction at every level), toys, balls and tugs all over the field that the dog must not touch... To name a few.

I would love that sport... :-)

Beetree just to clarify for you.

The PDC is the entry level title before the PSA1. It is sort of like the BH with a protection phase. It is similar to the PSA 1 with less obedience and pressure.

Seems like in the early days of PSA they did not have the PDC, they had a "TC", which I assume means temperament certificate, and is only Obedience (no bitework).

Both of these titles are initial requirements to prove the dog has basic control and the temperament for the sport.

When discussing whether a dog was 'owner trained' or not, you first need to find out how that particular discipline or credentialing organization defines 'owner trained'.

Beetree: I see where he puts the title on Varo in the lower classes back in 2002, yet the training still can not be claimed to be by Hans as OT, even though he is being the registered owner at time of trial.

 

Hans:

I was Varo's and Foxi's the PSA original trainer. Give it brake and go train dog. If you find another a trainer who trained these dogs in PSA besides me I give you $1000 for each.

 SMH

@Prager   So, the dog's name is correctly spelled as, FOXI, and is a GSD? It would be much easier to just provide the full name. Playing cat and mouse with that information is odd. And please, keep your money. Learning about a new sport fits within my life long love of knowledge for knowledges' sake; I do it for personal reasons, only.

@Hexe: I agree with you and took your advice. I have tried to find some specific definition from the PSA K9 site: http://psak9.org on OT: Owner Trainer, the determination and how it relates to the rules.

However, this is the only mention that I can find; in the pdf of the 2012-1013 Rulebook, does it state: A dog trained by one owner/handler to a certain PSA level, if sold to another handler, must continue to compete in the PSA level the dog has achieved with the previous handler/owner. 

The sport began in 2001, and there have been changes during its development to the rules and requisites, but in 2002, I can only think there must have been a reason to mark the OT as N. Since my last post, GSDFan has corrected me on the order of PDC, so then it stands to reason that it was not Hans who passed or trained for the PDC certificate with Varo. 

PDC comes before PSA, I get that now! I have skimmed the Rulebook and WOW, what all that is involved with this sport! I have the utmost respect for the training and precision, and preparing for the element of the unknown by those who compete, especially the higher levels. That is what I think is the biggest divergence from IPO/Schutzhund, if one cares to compare them.

Also, competing to the final Schutzhund III level is not nearly as time consumptive as earning the final PSA 3 level! 

JMHO

 

He had some training from Czech which actually worked against me because he was a total sleeve dog and he needed to do inside bites on suit and that was a struggle with him. You know default on the forearm - was really ingrained.  Also his comes were slow since someone before me screwed that up And sit was on his hunches so we flunk on that one 2x . So there was a lot of fixing. and retraining for PSA . But I have trained him and titled him PSA myself .

So Hans, it would seem that your original posting that sportism "IMO opinion it is a faulty approach because it establishes permanent default (setting) on equipment preference." is a faulty one, by your own admission.      Since you obviously re-trained this dog Varo, that had previous sleeve training, to bite on the suit and target the man for the PSA title, your assertion that "sportism" sets a permanent default is not true.     It comes down to training and the individual dog's character.