Hip/elbow/health guarantees/warranties and what would you do? - Page 2

If you don't like the agreement laid out for a puppy, then don't buy it. Not a single person can "guarantee" that a puppy will not have HD/ED. X-rayed adult dogs, sure, puppies, not a chance. You're not asking for a "guarantee," you're asking for a money back warranty. And it is a breeder's choice to offer one or not. I don't know what kind of other "breeders" you're looking into, but there are just as many respectable breeders that don't offer a single health "guarantee." You're buying a puppy. If you want 100% guarantee to be free of your concerns, then buy an x-rayed adult. Simple. Try importing a dog or puppy from another country and seeing if you get any type of guarantee with the dog.

For someone looking for a dog based on color and for breeding purposes alone, I wouldn't be surprised if they no longer offered the puppy to you at all.

Gsdkiera, I don´t know you, but you seem to be honest in your goals ( training, health testing, maybe breeding ).
You already own one dog that you are not able to breed, in case the second isn´t able to work because of health problems, or not good enough for breeding in your eyes, you will end as the proud owner of two "useless" ( don´t misunderstand me - no dog is "useless" - only in case of breeding/training ) dogs.

Are you able to "rehome" a dog? I guess you are not. Are you able to take care for an endless amount of dogs? I don´t think so.
In that case try to find a young female ( 6 - 12 months ), be willing to spend some money, but ask for HD/ED prelims, maybe DNA, otherwise you may end up with several pets...

Try to find a dog you are able to see in person prior to buying, even if you have to fly. That´s cheaper than buying the 3. dog, because the seller and you think different about temperament and working abilities.

Start with a female, it´s easy to find a good stud,and a stud fee is way cheaper than raising and trainig another dog.
In case you really start to breed later on, you need different bloodlines, "one stud for all" is nonsense.

You like black/tan dogs - go for it, why not - but follow the rule

1. health
2. working abilities
3. conformation
4. color

You already own one dog, so be patient, until you are able to find "your" foundation bitch.

Kind regards,
Susie

Bavarian, since you apparently did not read the entire op or, if you did, you did not or chose not to understand what you read or what I was asking, your comments are, for the most part, pointless and irrelevant to my question. I posted a want to buy ad, people responded if they thought they had dogs that would fit, so obviously they did not care that I was going to eventually breed the dog (clearly stated both here and in the want ad that the dog would be bred only after being titled, and if hips, elbows and health tests were all clear) or that I had a color preference (which was clearly stated to be just that, a preference, and secondary to the other characteristics I was looking for). I am looking in the US because I very much do understand that imported dogs do not come with any warranty or guarantee of any kind. Many of the breeders who responded, everyone, in fact, with the exception of 2, offered health and hip/elbow guarantees in their contracts. My hesitation about the black and tan male was not so much that the breeder didn't offer what I wanted, but the contradictory nature of the reasons for not offering it. I absolutely realize that it is the breeder's choice as far as what they want to offer regarding guarantees/warranties.

What is contradictory about their reasons? Assuming this is a responsible breeder…if they didn’t think the dogs were breed worthy they wouldn’t have bred them. If they thought they’d produce genetic diseases, they wouldn’t have bred them. To me (someone from Europe that now lives in the US) warrantees have been a strictly American idea that probably started with lower level breeders looking to distinguish themselves from the market and offering something that breeders already producing excellent dogs weren’t offering at the time. It’s something that doesn’t really involve a lot of extra expense at the time and is not something that the majority of the buyers will collect on (assuming the breeder is responsible). The warranties caught on and the “better” breeders had little choice but to also offer them because of pressure from their buyers. Some didn’t, and still don’t, they let their dogs, and their knowledge of the lines, speak for themselves rather than extra pieces of papers that just place more responsibility on the breeder.

Doesn’t matter who responded to who. You clearly were still interested even though they offered a male and you wanted a female. So there is enough there to see that your mind isn’t 100% made up and you can change what you want. So even though the sex of the dog didn’t match your inquiry, you were still interested for some reason in the dog. Interested enough in fact to post about it on a separate forum and get other opinions after clearly having a more in depth discussion about the puppy in question. Just wondering…what caught your eye about the male puppy that the females you were offered didn’t have? It was clearly enough to make you question your initial inquiry and possibly change the way you planned on going about your initial steps into forming a kennel.

There are a lot of things to weigh when buying a puppy. Pedigree, accomplishments of parents, comfort with breeder, and yeah, the “extras” you get on top of the puppy. Each breeding is different. Each puppy is different. Each breeder offers different warranties and does different health tests. Each buyer has to weigh those things for themselves. Personally, when I decide to purchase a breeding dog, it’s the working ability and pedigree that matter most to me. The warranty is useless because if the dog doesn’t pass the health tests, I’ve still lost 2 years of my life training and waiting for the dog. The $1000+ I get back doesn’t mean much when I’ve just lost a possible breeding prospect. That’s why I do a lot of research on the pedigree and on the breeder and stack the odds in my favor for health based on that information, the health of the line is much more important to me than the written word of the breeder that they’ll return some money to me in a few years if things don’t work out.