Please help...can someone find out if these two dogs have shutzhund titles or not?? - Page 1

You can try emailing the German SV, if they were titled under an SV judge then Germany will have record of it. You can email Sabine at ​akc@schaeferhunde.de

I looked and neither parent is listed in the SV's HD Zuchtwerte database, so no a-stamps and they are also not in the OFA database. Not sure why someone would bother to Schutzhund title a dog that does not even have certified hips. From his website the mother is 9 years old and the father 6, so they should both be in one of those databases for hips. Me thinks you were lied to :(

It's possible these two dogs are titled, but I'd have to say it's bloody unlikley-- and frankly, aside from detesting the lying liarmouth part of claiming titles where there are none, I'm less concerned about whether or not these dogs are really SchH 2, and more concerned about the lack of any mention of hip and elbows certifications on the pedigrees on this site OR on the breeder's webpage.  It makes no sense at all for the 'breeder' to FAIL to note on their own website that Baxter and/or Colby were certified as having sound hips and elbows by either OFA or the SV's 'a' stamp program...so I'm inclined to think these dogs have neither type of certification--either never done, or didn't pass. Either way, not a good sign, and doesn't give much credence to these dogs having earned SchH 2 titles, either.

As for proving the SchH titles, it wouldn't be difficult for the breeder to do--they just need to show you the dog's scorebook, but even that can be faked if you don't know what you're looking for on the scorebook pages. 

[Edited to add: just read through your other thread, and just based on what the 'breeder' said about "having to check with the club" to see if he could show you the dog's paperwork, I can guarantee you this person either hasn't the faintest idea about Schutzhund titling, or knows but is counting on you buying the lie since you already bought the puppy anyway.  The club where a title is earned has NO say in who the dog's owner shows the scorebook to, or any other paperwork connected to the dog, for that matter. You've been snookered.  I see Yogie replied on your other thread, and I'm pretty sure you'll be hearing back from him confirming that you were told lies by the seller. ]

The only place the SchH 2 titles are published for either of these dogs is on the home page of the 'breeder'--so make sure you get a screen capture of that immediately, cause it's probably going to disappear now that you're 'complaining'. There's no mention of a SchH title for either the sire or dam on the puppy page of the website, nor the other pages that show the males and female owned by this 'breeder'. Unless you're willing to return your pup, however, you're probably without any options; you might be able to take them to small claims court for fraud, but in the end, the best you can likely get would just be a return of your purchase price in exchange for returning the pup to them. It's a rare person who can close their heart up enough to hand a puppy back to the seller after they've taken the little bugger home and fallen in love with it...and that's what the shady 'breeders' count on when they run their cons.

You've learned a valuable lesson, and don't beat yourself up over it--whether they'd admit it or not, a large number of folks learned the same lesson [or worse] the hard way, too.  It's a mistake you won't make a second time, and if the pup is healthy and you're happy with it, the fact that the parents aren't titled doesn't change that. Hopefully, you're one of the lucky ones in the world and the pup will have sound hips and elbows, despite there apparently being no certs on the parents, and will live a long and loving life with you and your family.  Keep your pup on the lean side, don't over-exercise but also don't UNDER-exercise, either--just let it be a puppy, and restrict it from jumping down from high places until the dog has matured.

Thanks so much everyone!!!  After more contacts with the breeder I am CERTAIN I was lied to!!!  I did look up all the dogs on her pedigree and thankfully other than the parents they had good hips at least, not much mention of elbows so I am hopeful!!!  It doesnt make sense to me tho why people have hips checked but not elbows... but thats an entirely different story!!!  Can someone who knows about different GSD lines tell me if this puppy's lines are "good ones".....  and as far as the puppy goes,  I love her and am happy with her...  there were 2 things about the puppy that concerned me about the breeder as soon as I saw her, but the truth is after those 2 things I couldnt stand to send her back with him.....  we met part way between where we live.  He brought her to me in the back of his pickup with the bed cover CLOSED in about 90 degree weather!!!!!  She was so hot she was litterally gasping for air!!!  And her coat was so matted around her neck that I found a groomer in the town we were in before I started home and she had to CUT all the mats out.... they were so bad and so close to her skin that she had to cut with scissors because a shaver wouldnt get close enough without cutting her!!!  In one way I feel like a total fool, but I tend to look at things as they work out for the best, and I do know this girl needed a home in a BAD way!!!  I see time and time again why breeders get such a bad name!!!  Such a shame!  I do wish there was some way to get the word out about such breeders who take advantage of trusting people and dress up a web site to show them as something they are definitely NOT!!  Thanks again!!

After other misinformation, I would make sure the pup is from the lines they are saying it is. 

GSDNewbie is there any way to really do that?  If so, how?

Your description of how she was delivered to you, and the condition she was in, makes me want to cry. And knowing that there are still puppies at the seller's place that are likely in the same condition makes it even worse.

There ARE ways to get some word out about this type of 'breeder'; websites such as Rip-Off Report allow buyers to register complaints about con-artists such as this guy; if you file a complaint and include all of the information [kennel name, website info, name of 'breeder', names of the dogs, etc.], at least when someone does a web search using any of those words, your complaint will come up in the results.  Can't hurt. 

Glad you love her and are happy with her. As for her bloodlines, they're decent enough; the dam's parents are both US-born dogs from California kennels which are based on West German showlines, and she herself comes from a SoCal showline kennel that does some showing in the breed ring and at least gets hips certified on their breeding stock. The sire's parents are both titled, breed-surveyed West German-born showline imports, so both of those dogs were hip certified as well; in fact, his mother, Feli, is a litter sister to vonlotta's Fanta [vonlotta replied to your questions on your other thread]. She should make a wonderful family member, and will probably do fine in any dog sport or activity you might want to do with her, though she's probably not going to be the next SchH champion in the US [rare is the showline that does go that far--as much due to the handler's dedication as the dog's abilities. There have been some, with similar lines to your pup as a matter of fact]. It's just a shame that the seller of your pup lied about the title status of her parents, and doesn't appear to have bothered to gotten at least their hips certified. 

Now that you have her, love her and hope for the best.

Link to your other thread now deleted, don't need 2 threads on the same subject. mrdarcy (Admin)

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/deleted_messages.read?mnr=734844

Where did the other thread go?   My post is omitted...Am I crazy?

Yogie