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by Gustav on 19 August 2012 - 19:08
by darylehret on 19 August 2012 - 21:08
Daryl is saying there is NO SCIENTIFIC PROOF of inbreeding depression. And that, my friends, is, as Daryl puts it, 'a crock of hooey!'
Sunsiler, it shows how LITTLE you're reading comprehension skills are. I did not say inbreeding depression does not exist, I said it occurs on different traits in ALL organisms, at the same time outbreeding depression ALSO occurs.
I also said "backmassing" is a BS made up term, which it is, but since you're so smart please define it for me.
So, again... There is NO scientific evidence that PROVES genetic diversity is critical to the fitness survival of a species.
In fact, there are examples where outcrossing an endangered species with another population has accelerated it's demise, on account of outbreeding depression.
by beetree on 19 August 2012 - 22:08
Do I have that right? Now I need to do a little self education on inbreeding depression and see if I can understand that one, too.
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Okay, then inbreeding depression is not a given. It all depends on the originating quality of the breeding pairs. It is only when individuals or populations with heterozygous alleles are overdominant, and bred with homozygous genotypes, that the resulting progeny wiil be less able to succeed in their environment.
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The problem seems to me to be, that inspite of all this, when the bad recessive genes do combine, the tragedy of the reality of the animal that results is just too hard to take, for some of us.
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Please correct me if I've drifted off in the wrong direction, if one feels inclined. Thanks.
by darylehret on 20 August 2012 - 04:08
Outbreeding depression is an effect of outcrossing that combines traits which then become less suitable to either environment. It also refers to beneficial polygenic combinations which had been inherited in-full now pass on broken or conversely, new deleterious polygenic combinations previously not existing (or long ago bred out) are formed.
by duke1965 on 20 August 2012 - 04:08
The problem seems to me to be, that inspite of all this, when the bad recessive genes do combine, the tragedy of the reality of the animal that results is just too hard to take, for some of us.
the result of bad genes combining is 100% identical if you are inbreeding or if you are outcrossing , example, bad hips is the same as bad hips, now the only difference is that if you are linebreeding with dogs with good hips, and linebreeding on dog with good hips, you are having far less chance producing bad hips, and that will improve every next generation, as you will SELECT the good ones to continue with, so IF there is a problem it will most likely surface, and you can select it out
I know bad hips is more than genetics, but its only example
now on the other hand,if you are outcrossing it might look like you produce healthyer dogs, but if problems dont surface in your first generations doesnot mean they are not there, and with every new combination you breed you are again playing the russian roulette, which bad genes will mach this time, and what will pop out now
@ gustav, it is all a matter of what you would call outcross, if you call javir outcross, fine, but than how do you keep this kind of outcrosses available in the future,and if you breed a showdog to javir, fine and what is the next step for the outcome of this generation,, where do you breed them to, what will be the next available 100% outcross, and what will be your guarantees on health.type and caracter
by Gustav on 20 August 2012 - 11:08
by Rik on 20 August 2012 - 11:08
IMO, it's not so much the selecting for positive traits whether inbreeding/linebreeding/outcrossing that cause issues. It's the willingness to ignore poor traits or the complete ignorance of poor traits, in the pursuit of the desirable.
The s/l has been mentioned. Did the s/l earn it's reputation because of breeding for color or because strict guidelines for character were "loosened" or ignored to more quickly produce the color.
Rik
by Gustav on 20 August 2012 - 11:08
by duke1965 on 20 August 2012 - 13:08
by Gustav on 20 August 2012 - 14:08
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