Epilepsy from German bred sires - Page 3

LilyDexter, NO WHERE in my first post do I even intimate that you are at fault here. Could it be that you think you are at fault? In my second post, I tried AGAIN to clarify my point that it is very difficult to know what is a cause of any particular medical condition and epilepsy is one of those conditions that sometimes defy our current knowledge. Even in this post, though I said you apparently did not do your homework in choosing a breeder or a dog (and that is based on what YOU said), I did not say that you were at fault. I think based on how upset you are, and that I certainly understand, that you simply do not read the comments I have written in the spirit they are written in. Your writing that you will simply put the pup to sleep is a sign that you are not using good sense. Based on what you say, I can not even begin to say whether that should even be a consideration. No where in any ones' posts has anyone said it was your fault. But, your ability to help the dog WILL be influenced by using common sense, the best veterinary knowledge available and not simply reacting out of anger to people, including me, who are trying to help you.

Lily, I was just reading something on another breed board regarding seizuring dogs. One person thinks their dog's seizures were the result of a treatment they were using on their lawn. Since they stopped using it, the seizures have stopped. I myself wonder about putting chemicals on the lawn when we have pets. Since we lost our first GSD to lymphpsarcoma and were treating our lawn at the time, we have decided to not use anything at all anymore. The grass doesn't look nearly as nice, but we can live with that.

Thanks for that advice Blitzen. I do not use any chemicals of any kind on anything, so it is not that. My pup has seen a neurological specialist at the hospital in England that actually trains most of our vets, so really the best treatment available. We have also taken her to one of the top homeopathic vets in the country. We have been prescribed phenobarbital for the fits & is this dose not work an immunosuppresent dose of steroids or a chemotherapy drug used to treat lymphosarcoma. I would not put any dog to sleep unless there was an alternative, but as the side effects of both these drugs are extreme & will only offer at best a temporary remission, we have decided to have her PTS if we reach the point of her needing to go on these drugs. I have seen dogs suffer awful side effects from such treatments & stronger dogs than her have died from them, so I don't think she would cope. Having spent 18mths caring for my dog with CDRM, giving every possible treatment no matter what cost, spending days on end searching the net for cures, buying a custom made cart from the states, carrying him around the garden, cleaning him up when he had accidents, etc, I don't feel like seeing another dog suffer. So I did not make my decision in haste. I am too intellegent & well balanced a person to react like that. So as you can see I have used common sense throughout & also obtained the best veterinary advice possible.

I am very sorry, Lily. I do understand your feelings. My first GSD was very unhealthy, an immune cripple that suffered through allergies, sinus infections joint problems, neurological deficits and finally the lymphosarcoma that caused his death at 7 1/2 years after months of chemo. We really hesitated about about another GSD, but took the chance and bought Blitz. So far, so good, just a few minor health problems. However, he had been a repeat of the first, I myself would not have another GSD either. It's just too damned heartbreaking. No one expects a puppy to be sick and evey buyer deserves a healthy puppy. Anyway, hope springs eternal - keep the faith. Maybe you will find a miracle cure after all.

While a dog can have a seizure for other reasons, GSD genetic seizure disorder is characterized by seizures that begin in a young dog, and that gradually grow worse and more frequent over time, isn't controllable by drugs, and it is fatal, GSDs with genetic epilepsy usually don't live more than a 2-4 years.

So sorry about the health problems with your first shepherd Blitzen, but Blitz sounds a good one. My mum has had 6 GSD's in all & has been lucky, one was very ill all her life (sister to my Dexter) and the other PTS as very aggressive, but the other four have all been incredibly healthy & two have neverd suffered a days illness, they range from 8-12 yrs now, so thats good. two came from a line well known for long lives. GSD genetics, in GSD genetic disorder how young would the seizures normally start & how bad would they usually be. Our pup began with head nodding & abscences at around 12wks, she had an actual seizure during her first season when we found her symptoms badly aggrivated. She has at least one head nodding episode daily (I have been advised this is petit mals) & every few days has a brief 'abscence' even now that she is on 60mg Phenobarbital daily, although this has helped ease off the symtoms a bit. Thoughout she has exhibited rage like aggression & possibly impaired learning (a symptom of epilepsy in humans) although again this has improved a lot on the Phenobarbital. Are her symptoms, in your opion similar to those seen in GSD genetic seizure disorder?

Hi Lily, It seems that you get closer to the sick dogs, they are special in so many ways. It was especially diffocult for us with Dylan as he had the best temperament with people anyone could ever hope for. Through all his chemo and various surgeries, xrays, tests, he never so much as lifted his lip at a vet or a tech. The chemo vet said she almost had a stroke when she first saw him, he was a 126 lb coat, looked very intimidating. All she could think was, oh, no I have to treat a GSD that large LOL. As it turned out she and her staff grew very fond of him and she said he was the first GSD she treated that didn't "look at her funny". I still miss him every day.

I actually agree with Hodie. Things happen and it is not always someone's fault. If it's true that the breeders have had similar problems before in their lines, then that is a shame on them. But unfortuneately there are some breeders who are blind like that and there have always been. I don't know if they are fully dishonest or if they are in denial themselves. But, it's really hard to legislate and enforce any kind of ethical standard, with product liability implications without being terribly unfair to other ethical breeders. After all, "accidents" can happen very unexpectedly, just as two intelligent normal parents can have a profoundly retarded child. We just don't have those kinds of controls in any kind of selective breeding program, and therefore, purebred animals are not "products" in the strict sense that assembly-line factory items are. If we ever perfect cloning and if it ever becomes really economically and ethically feasable, then we can have "factory warrantied" dogs with their own spec sheets. Here is what I think: You may have been remiss in your own self-responsibilities. If you could find out about these other instances of problem puppies that these same breeders have allegedly produced, you could just as well have learned about them before you bought the pup, as afterwards. This would go to the argument that you did NOT do your homework and perform your due diligence.

Ouch, DDR-DSH!! I think Lily has suffered enough, don't you. Have mercy..................

DDR-DSH you miss my point, although your first paragraph is very true. I am not looking to blame anyone, if I were I would take legal actions against the breeder, and I would have a good case, but I don't care about that. The medical treatment my pup will recieve depends on whether we can establish she has heritary epilepsy, if you read through my postings you will understand that, and that is what I care about. If GSD breeders don't care whether epilepy becomes a huge problem again, I don't care, because I won't be getting another Shepherd. I may be at fault for purchasing this pup, but surely the breeders are more at fault for producing her in the first place? The breeders told me thier stock had a hip average of 10, and I checked this as best i could, but after found that the KC did not have records of the scores of some ancestors. A neighbour recommended the breeders to me, they had one of this kennels stock, which was healthy & they had known the breeders for a long time, so I had no reason to mistrust them. The premises were spotless & all the litter & breeding stock were clean, healthy & in very good condition & very good examples of the breed with excellent pedigrees, and the breeder was very knowledgeable. I had no reason to doubt them & I do not have an argument with them even now, because like you say they are in denial & that happens I know. But surely, if many cases of epilepsy come to light, and are from the same stud line, then sensible breeders, who are not in denial, would not want A BUILD UP of that dogs lines on their pedigree. I repeat again A BUILD UP. I don't know if you are a breeder, or what lines you have in your stock, but maybe like another who has answered to this topic, you know quite a bit about the actual line I am mentioning & are in denial yourself?