Thoughts on co-owning a dog - Page 5

 From many years of listening to the  BIG BAD word    The courts won't honor any of my paperwork ..and many many other BAD comments

 NO NO NO NO

 Run run

Own your own dog, pay your own way...People change in the matter of MONEY

  Money TALKS   BULL CORN walks...

not the real saying but you get the Jist?

NEVER would I ..  Same as PARTNERSHIPS in business deals..NO NO NO

YR

Ahhh.. the things I have learned... LOL

There are other breeders and other dogs in the world.  You do not need to have a co ownership if you do not want to have a co ownership.  Move on and find a breeder who will be there for you and so forth. 

Go back and read what Molly wrote.  Then read it again.  And again. 

Yeah.. the breeder needs you NOW.  They are keeping 3 puppies.. all from the same litter.. for breeding.. That should say something right there!  All three are the same genetics....

I don't have much to add that hasn't already been said based on what I quickly skimmed, but I have lmao at breeders who want someone to BUY the dog, then CO-OWN it. That's hilarious, to me, and should be enough of a glimpse into their state of mind to tell you to run far, run fast. I heard one deal where the buyer paid full price, shipping, crate, health cert, etc. and was REQUIRED to title the dog and then the breeder had access for life and unlimited free breedings, as well as co-ownership on paper. WTF???????????????? The big bonus was that, get this, the buyer could also use him for stud. LOL LOL  Where do these lunatics get off with that kind of thinking? 

If there are expectations on you that you wouldn't have if you owned the dog solely, then you shouldn't be paying for the dog.

I have several dogs on kind of odd arrangements; one is a "permanent foster." I own the dog on paper and can breed to him if I want to, no charge, but they pay daily expenses and the dog is theirs for all intents and purposes. I don't meddle needlessly. I was offered nearly $6k for the dog, wanted to keep him, so I gave him to this person and we have this arrangement. He got a $6k dog for nothing down and he pays expenses as he would with any other dog. I sacrificed the money in order to have access to the dog and KNOW he was in a wonderful home. It was a win-win. I have 2 others with a K9 handler and his family that I have "access" to, meaning I could breed to them if I wanted, but I sold them at a very discounted price and reserved 2 breedings if all turns out well. If not, oh well. It woudn't have been any different if I'd kept them myself, except if I had, and they didn't turn out, I'd be looking for homes for them and now, they already have them. I truly think if you are dealing with reasonable, ETHICAL people, it can work.

I've co-owned dogs before & as a breeder co-owned with other people over the years.

1st co-ownership was a Standard Poodle from 8 weeks old. He was out of one of the top winning Poodle of all time. The breeder wanted over $10K for the puppies or co-ownership. I loved this dog dearly. I trained him not only in obedience but started him in SAR & confirmation too. He was kept is show condition & had to go to an experience groomer 3x a week while his puppy coat came out into his full adult coat. All this was a lot of time, $, & his grooming alone was a HUGE under taking. When he reach 1.5 years old & I successfully acquired his championship full filling the co-ownership. The breeder suggested he was such a nice dog he should be shown by a top handler. I thought it would be cool to go watch him in shows while being campaigned. The breeder other to pay 1/2 the cost of his show career. Long story short I NEVER saw my dog again, except on a national televise dog show on tv. But I did get my handler bill faithfully every month. When he retired for stud from show career the handler kept him, & assuming he breeder & handler split the stud fee because I never saw any money. I was offered a son out of my co-owned which the handler would show. I declined of coursed.

2nd co-ownership was a Great Dane with a close breeder friend that just needed help showing her puppies she was holding back.
Everything worked out fine the first 2 years then my pup failed some of her health clearances. The breeder had a fit that I wanted to spay her & not breed her. The breeder wanted to breed her then register her puppies under her sister's name since she passed all health clearances, but her sister didn't have as nice of confirmation. I thought my friend was a ethical breeder & cared about the breed. It was a slap in the face when I was already so upset my beloved dog's health clearances did not pass hips & heart. I went ahead & spayed her & the breeder went ahead & try to sue me. I won but our friendship ended. 

3rd co-ownership was with a Bulldog. The Bulldog puppy came to me from a very busy owner for doggie daycare & training.
She was dropped off one day then never picked up back up from the owner. I received a phone call from the breeder telling me I was her new co-owner-?! But I loved that little Bully & she became one of my demo dogs a long side my GSD's. Sadly she died of a massive heart attack at only 11 months old over night. The breeder was very nice & supportive. She offered me a replacement puppy which I declined since I never was prepared to add a 3rd dog to my home in the first place.

I've co-owned 4 dogs I've bred over the years. 2 were altered by their owners by 6-7 months old which obviously was upsetting to me, but what can you do? The dogs were in loving homes so that's what matter most. The other 2 dogs the owners never certified / titled the dogs as promised. Both owners tried but they either lacked the skill or resources to complete. I blamed more myself since they were novices & I shouldn't have expected them to meet such high promises they envisioned without trying to put in any effort beforehand to accomplish.

I think co-ownership can work only if there is a short window of co-ownership by the breeder. When I co-own a dog I only do so for 2 breeding for a bitch or two free stud services for a male. After which the dog's ownership is transferred directly to the co-owner in full.
During the co-owned time I pay all routine vet bills, health clearance, & breeding expense. The co-owner takes care of daily care & expense plus working / titling. If the dog is not breed worthy then ownership is transferred directly to co-owner plus they will get a replacement dog without any co-ownership. But I'm not saying it has to be spelled out like this just that is needs to be fair to both parties & only for a short amount of time. You should not owe the breeder any more than what the co-owned dog would be worth after titled at 2-3 years old. If the dog would be worth $4-$10K then = 2+ pick puppies / split 2 breedings from chosen stud, then co-ownership is completed. That would equal to the value of the dog if breeder had kept back & titled themselves. Why should you have to owe any more?

NEVER EVER agree to a long term co-ownership that only benefits the one party & your basically just renting the dog for life.
That kind of set up always lead to issues. Not unless your the type of person that likes to lease a car you have to pay monthly to lease & maintain. At the end of the lease you still have to dish out tons of $. But you get to drive a new expensive car through a lease you might not afford through financing. This would be the same as a long term co-ownership that just never ends.
If you prefer to own your car eventually & so you finance instead. After 3-5 years of car payments you now own your car.
This would be the same as a short term co-ownership. At the end you own the dog in full. If you want to alter the dog or breed the dog under your name with your choosen stud you should have the right after the co-ownership is completed, etc.


 

So what is in it for you?  You will gain a mentor, their experiences, their knowledge;  what about financial obligations, raising the dog(s); legal obligations when they arise;  at what point does your mentor sign the dog(s) over to you? Stud fees, expenses of the litter(s); you can gain all of the above without co-ownership's;  AKC does not get involved if there are problems and they don't recommend co-ownerships.  I would buy the dog(s) outright and carry on.  Nan

I would not co-own a puppy! Breeders, not all but most who have never taken a dog to anything more than their back yard and did couple rounds of shitty heeling do not understand what it takes to raise and train and trial a dog... There are breeders who listen to people who train and are very much OK with being informed their dog  will maybe make it to IPO 1 and then call it done! But most of the breeders think their puppy is a superstar, walking on water that is suitable for street work and awesome titles! Not a reality!

I would not have a problem to co-own an adult dog, proven female or a male and the expectations are very clear as who does what! I would only take a puppy to raise, train, title and get paid by the breeder on the spot! I would not even take a puppy unless I like the dog, A LOT!