Thoughts on co-owning a dog - Page 3

Also food for thought, what if she doesn't turn out to be breed worthy? Or you decide showing and titling is not
what you want to be doing, she doesn't have the temperament to title etc...

The whole litters and puppies thing is presuming she is breedworthy. What if she's not? What if you don't feel
she is and your co-owner wants to breed her anyways?

How about if the dog gets seriously hurt
while in training? What happens if the
dog has to have an early retirement due
to injury? And yes, what about if the dog
doesn't turn out to be breed worthy?
Bad hips, bad elbows, weak temperment,
no working ability etc?

Much easier and 'cleaner' to just own
the dog outright and have an additional
supplemental contract. Make sure a
financial value is included, ie: you want out,
so you should be paid $____, or the breeder
should be bought out for $____. But then,
what if neither party wants to pay the
agreed upon buy out? Back to being screwed.
You cannot sell the dog, and the co-owner
can come at any time and take the dog back,
afterall, he/she ownes it too.

What if something happens to either you or
the co-owner, and that person is no longer
around to be able to sign off? Again, screwed.
You cannot do anything without the co-owners
signature. Just too much chance for bad feelings
and misunderstood expectations, goals etc.

IMO the most important thing about co-owning is that the person you co-own with demonstrates the same breeding philosophy and standard of ethics as you do. If you won't breed a dysplastic dog or an unxrayed dog, a coat, a dog without a DM test,  and so forth no matter what, make sure your co-owner won't either. Otherwise, you will find yourself arguing over every little thing. If  you are like minded about breeding then it is less likely that you will have issues with a co-owner.

All the co-ownerships with dogs have worked great!  Terms are easy I pay everything dog realated ( daily stuff food, vet, titling) and the breeder pays for all breeding costs stud fee, vet during pregnancy, whelps the pups etc.  Ownership is transfered  in full after the litters are born ( 1 or 2 depending on litter size etc).  Has worked great.  Everything in writing and no margin for error PLUS the breeders I have dealt with have excellent moral compasses :)

Brynjulf, I suspect that last sentence is why your co-ownerships have worked out well.

I should also mention that I take no pups back from the litters until ownership is transferred.  It keeps the litter splitting and all that stuff out of the picture.  I think that is when some deals go south. 

NO NO NO NO NO!!!

It is fine as long as things are fine.  Rarely does that stasis continue. 

You buy the dog.  You pay for the vet.  You pay for the health testing.  You title the dog.  You buy the dog food.  You provide a roof for the dog.  The dog is YOURS.  Co ownership gives the other person rights to that which they have not earned.. yes.. they mixed the genes (either well or poorly) and the result of that is what you have.  Taking that result to its potential is your expense on top of paying for the puppy. 

Most people who want co ownership (breeders) want control.  And they have it.. because to breed the dog and register the puppies they have to sign off. 

Move along.. find another breeder... there are lots and lots of dogs out there for sale. 

Make a side contract if you want.. but another word of advice.. word it carefully and be sure if there is shared expenses and shared income it includes anything that goes wrong, like C-Section.  Limit it to ONE litter.

IMO it is better to buy the dog outright.  After all, it is all your time, money and work that makes the dog.  Using the breeder as a guide is good and, if the dog is stellar and the breeder wants to breed the dog, have them lease her!

Again.. to co ownership.. NO NO NO NO. 

Don't ask me how I know. 

Sharing my experience:

I have never co-owned a dog, but am good friends with a local breeder and have watched HER go through hell, even with contracts and paperwork etc.

Specifically:

One co-owner decided they were going to go behind her back, breed the bitch, forge her signature on the AKC papers, and sell the litter under their kennel name. When she found this out, which was a CLEAR breach of contract, and unfortunately the stud owner is involved too,  she gave them the offer to either give her what the contract stated, 3 puppies from the litter, or to buy out her half of the bitch.

Needless to say AKC has been contacted, and there is a huge lawsuit going on, hold on the papers, potential banning from specific parties registering through AKC, etc. Because this co-owner refuses to budge.

I've also seen a co-ownership go horribly wrong when you have people all about the money, complaining about having to whelp litters, unforseen vet bills, studs, etc.

I personally wouldnt do it. The dog is NEVER yours, every decision you make with this dog will be monitored, the money and the reward is never going to be worth your time.

What if the bitch turns out to be SUPER in every way, breeder decides to take this dog that you've bonded with, promote her in every state, and even over seas, Shows every weekend, sees the dog is worth $$$$$ and decides to sell it to china for 50k? Youre loss, guarantee you wouldnt get a split of that 50k. Just a broken heart.

You could end up with a super co-ownership and it will literally be all rainbows and butterflys for the dogs life. Just remember, you may be the co-owner on paper and in contract...but the breeder, especially if you pay no money up front, will always have control and ultimate ownership of the dog when things go down (unless you have thousands of dollars to spend in lawyers and buyout money etc) I've seen more bad co-ownerships than good..and its always the person not the breeder who gets screwed. Especially with bitches.

It will be alot better to buy the dog out right, and if this breeder wont do that, go elsewhere.

Literally must cover EVERYTHING in a contract, and I'd bring lawyers into it etc to cover yourself. There are SO many things that can come up and happen..you REALLY need to be able to trust this person...and know they care more about you and their name and the dog than they do about $$$. What if the dog doesnt turn out, and the breeder wants you to buy out his half and if you wont, he will buy out your half? Stuff like that yanno.

There is always ONE out if you co own a dog.  Spay or Neuter.  Once that is done, usually the argument is as well.  Not always, but usually.  If it gets real emotional, the dog can still end up being taken.. cuz they own half. 

Either party in a co ownership can be considered by the other the " co owner from hell."  It depends on where you stand and what your ideals are vs. the other party. 

Breeders want to protect their breeding interest.. and that is all about lines and money.  I can understand that because it takes years to develop a line.  OTOH if the breeder is kennel blind and will breed no matter what.. and the buyer is more conservative and requires titles that the breeder does not require.. well.. you got a problem. 

AKC WARNS people not to co own.  It is a huge issue because so often it is NOT "rainbows and butterflies." 

In the end, it is all about egos and the money and not about the dog.

Don't ask me how I know!
  

I really appreciate everyone's feedback on this matter. It has definitely given me some things to think about and questions to ask. I do know that in this case I think he needs me as much as I need him. He needs me to title/show his dog (as he doesn't have the time) and I really need him to get educated on showing, breeding, lines, whelping, etc. I know what I know and I know what I don't know and I know that I don't know enough to do this on my own. I can see how if either party is in it for the money or if either party doesn't have a good moral compass how the relationship can go south very quickly. 

He has explained to me how co-owership works and one of the things he said was "I pay full price for the dog and he is on the title in name only". What does "in name only" really mean? I am thinking if you are on the title in "name only" you still have a say in what happens the dog? It seems to me that the questions I need to ask are what happens if the terms of the contract can't be fulfilled for some un-forseen reason.