Working line vs showline - Page 3

Malinoid, those are some great points. One of my males falls into one of the categories you described above. He's got great prey and hunt drive, but lacks the nerve to tangle with a decoy. But what I see in him otherwise lead me to start training him to track. He's got the best obedience of any dog I have, and he's showing good potential in tracking. Time will tell. My wife has mentioned doing competiton OB with him, which would be great for both of them. My point is that eventhough he's not what I personally typically prefer in my dogs, there are areas that he can excel at. Down the road if I decide to breed a litter just for SAR, he might be a good candidate if I can get the correct pairing. You mentioned something else I don't hear alot of-- breeding with a goal in mind. Too many people think they can breed 2 good dogs and get a top notch litter and often times it just isn't true. If you don't have a goal in mind with each breeding there is no way to have any notion at all about what you should get; the thought process stops at "he's a great dog and she's a great dog, therefore they will produce great dogs". If you breed for a certain objective, you are way more apt to get more of what you're looking for.

Storms, don't get me wrong. If a dog performs its job to your satisfaction, there is nothing wrong with that at all. When I say people should get a different breed what I'm referring to is when people want to "tone" down dogs for the show ring. I just think a little differently. I don't think alot of show breeders truly are trying to breed the working ablility out. But I don't think they understand enough about genetics to realize that in order to get a temperment suitable for the show ring in a mal, you more often than not breed out the drives and desires required for that dog to work. when you're breeding for working ability you're trying to amplify those traits.. Think of it like this: if you breed for work, if the dog ends up being pretty, it's a bonus. When you breed for show, if the dog can work it's a bonus. It's a matter of where your focus is.

Excellent post John.  I think when people look at a breeder breeding for "bitework" they believe it's a one dimensional thing, just biting.  They don't realize there are so many components to it, and many of these components are the reason the Malinois can go out and do so many other things also. 
My focus in breeding is "bitework", defined as both the sports and street, yet my dogs are out there in almost every venue you can think of.  Why, because to breed for "bitework" means breeding for drive (all drives, not just prey drive), temperament, structure, health, intelligence, focus, ability to work with the handler, longevity, etc.  And these traits translate into dogs that can do SAR, herding, obedience, agility, flyball, etc in addition to Police, French/Mondio Ring, Schutzhund, personal protection, etc.  It doesn't mean it produces a dog that anyone anywhere can handle, but IMO a Belgian shouldn't be a dog that anyone anywhere can handle.  The worst thing that could happen to the breed IMO would be for it to become the next GSD, Dobe, Rott, etc that is being bred to be a dog that shows up in every pet home across the country. 
As for biting dogs and SAR, I know quite a few dogs who are trained/titled in protection sports who are also actively working as SAR dogs.  They are very capable of telling the difference between who to bite and who to find/save.  Doing one does not exclude the other.

Oh, a working dog has to be able to do the work it was bred for. The good
thing about Malinois is you don't see alot of poor confirmation. Their looks
and work go hand in hand.  JLP

I agree, the biggest difference between a showline mal and a working line mal is the ear set and level of drive/ intensity.

Again Storms, you missed the point. Malinois historically & typically have good conformation (are pleasing to the eye) because the work demands it (form follows function), not because they are bred to some subjective phenotypic standard. The biggest difference is in their heart & between their ears.

So your saying that my showline is dumb and has no heart, omg really. You don't know showlines than cause she is not lacking heart or brains. She would die trying to please me. As most Mals would. She does lack drive and some nerve I will certainly admitt that but she is smart and she does work. Whatever, you guys will never see a different point of view. I am not missing your point as I do stay open minded to others views because again I like both types so I do see where your coming from, but can you all for a minute see mine. I just think that there is nothing wrong with a mal doing many different jobs, that is my point none other. Some mals just need a little less intensity to do different jobs, big firggin deal. As long as there are breeders have working line mals there will always be working line mals for you guys to choose from. For me I want a dog that does it all. That is nothing more than loving the breed and having high expectaions for it. But whatever.   

Storms I don't think you missed my point.  I love to see people enjoy this breed.
I'm not one of the guys though. Im an old fart. If I remember to feed my dogs
and horse take my viagra, its been a pretty good day. JLP

Sorms,

The very thing I love about the Malinois is it's utility and versatility, just like you. My point is, there is no need for a 'showline' Malinois, because the working-line can do it all - Ring, Police, IPO, Herding, SAR, Agility & even Conformation. Aside from all of that, there is a difference between what the dogs can be used for and which ones are worthy of breeding. In my own litter I have pups doing everything from Police work to being a family pet, and yes, doing conformation. I'm pround of all of them, but I also have my opinions as to which, if any, should be chosen to perpetuate the breed.