Withholding Food to train - Page 2

Neverming that it's cruel .............. all of our organs (including our brains) require nutrients to function.  How does a dog that's been deprived for days learn anything?    He can't even think and yet he's supposed to determine some kind of pack order and learn something.    It's not only cruel ............ but totally counter productive.   What a moron.   Turn him in for bring cruel and stupid.

 

I'm wondering a bit about this post, as a "well respected kennel" is referenced - but no names mentioned.  While it might be considered "good form" to not mention direct names, I'm a little concerned by someone coming here with such an alarming story, with minimal details and a post count of 1.  Jennifer, while I'm not discounting your story, I could see a potential for those opposed to the sport, protection training, or the breeding of dogs to discredit the process (schutzhund) which has produced the most versatile utility dog ever known to humankind.

For this reason, would you be willing to PM the kennel name or provide additional details of your dog?  Such as full name, breeders name, etc?  Why did you send the dog out to be titled?  Were you intending to breed or show it? Did you train or do foundation work before sending your dog off?

You have received a number of honest answers here and I think it would be reasonable to provide further details to validate your experience.  I assume this would make sense to you, in that if you were willing to send your dog out to be titled you must see value in the process and would not want to see it possibly discredited.

FWIW, I would consider what you described as criminal animal abuse and would require anyone (as a civic duty) to report the situation to the authorities.  (why did you choose not to?) There is no call for starving a dog to train it for schutzhund or any other thing.  Furthermore, i can't imagine a "trainer" who felt it ncessary to stave a dog being able successfully title anything, so they are a scammer as well.  So by outing the fraud it only cleans up the ranks of the people who truly believe in the sport and the betterment it provides to the breed.

As others state, I will withhold AM breakfast until after AM tracking - which would mean my dog might eat an hour later than normal and the entire meal (same amount as given on a bowl) would be fed, although it may (in part or whole) be placed on the track as opposed to a bowl.

Hope this helps,

-Calvin

Hi Calvin,
I completely understand your skepticism regarding my post.  I didn't name names in the beginning because I wasn't sure if the Malinois/ German Shepherd world trained differently than the Cane Corso world.  As I said before I'm a cane corso breeder and have limited experience with Schutzhund trainers other than those immediately surronding Wilmington, NC, where I live.  The Trainers name is Buddy Lawson and he trains under the name Canine Enterprise and Cardinal Hill Kennel.  His kennel is in Mocksville, NC.    Mondo weighed approx. 125lbs the week before he was left at Mr. Lawson's and the day I picked him up he weighed 99lbs at the vet.  His last weight was Friday and he weighed 126lbs.  He was with Mr. Lawson from 12/8/08 thru 12/23/08.  The vet did bloodwork and stool samples to rule out bacterial enteritis or parasites that might have explained his dramatic weight loss. Here are pics of Mondo,
i  before   app.125               day after with a bath 99lbs  
                                        Jan 20 118lbs 

Wow, i'm sorry again for your bad experience.  I hope your dog gets well soon. 

-Calvin

"I wasn't sure if the Malinois/ German Shepherd world trained differently than the Cane Corso world. "

A dog is a dog. You train a Cane Corso, as you would train a poodle, german shepherd, a mailnois or a mutt or any other dog with small deviations in training because each dog is an ondividual, not because of the breed.

What he was doing is starving the dog, not "witholding" anything. Some people use fasting, once or twice a month by witholding food for a day, with plenty of water to drink at all times.

If you were to go tracking, you can skip breakfast at its usual time and either:
1) give the whole thing to the dog ON THE TRACK
2) put some on the track and feed the rest shortly afterwards.

That's witholding, what he was doing was not it.

Food is different than water. There is no reason in the world whatsoever to not give the dog fresh water AT ALL TIMES. Any other way is either bordering on, or is outward abuse.

Get a different trainer and stick with your vet.

That is a major weight loss for a Cane Corso, or any dog for that matter. I hope you are able to go after this person so he doesn't do this to anyone else's dog's. I'm sure your dog isn't the first either so I would try to check around to see if you can get anyone else to back you up in court.  Your boy is gorgeous, and I hope he is on the mend!!! I love that breed myself along with of course the GSD, and the Beauceron.

Wow, this isn't withholding food, it's neglect. Clean kennels and water have nothing to do with withholding food. Anything more than 2-3 days without food is rediculous as well. I hope you keep on this guy, like white on rice and let us know his name, so no one else makes the same mistake.

Quote:    Does anyone here see the difference between withholding food and starving?

Well  to me 24 hours is withholding food.    48 hours would be extreme withholding food (I wouldn't do it, but would still consider it withholding food)   and 72 hours or more is starving and I stick by my belief that at that point dogs will fail to learn anything.

And this is from a girl that feeds raw and fasts her dogs every 10 days or so.