working dog prices?? - Page 8

my working puppy : zcott vom hauslarwin was € 600 . thats a normal price in holland

www.larwin.nl

best regards

Bert van der Veen

Shelley: I think breeding top GSDs, consistently beautiful in the ring AND with temperament and working ability to excel on the trial field, is LOT harder than breeding fast horses, but that's just my opinion.

Christopher: We have common ground here! I agree 100%.

And the reason it’s harder, IMO, is because the traits needed for work are at odds with the conformation standard and breed test.

because the traits needed for work are at odds with the conformation standard and breed test.

Not necessarily. Things have changed and are continuing to change. 15-20 yrs. ago it was rare to find a good working dog with KK1. Now there are lots of them. They don't have to be roachy or over-built to get KK1 nowadays, and a lot more attention is being paid to the quality of their work at the breed survey than ever before, hence many SG dogs now recieving KK1. I think I may have had the only G-rated dog ever to get KK1 in this country "on the merit of her work,"  (direct quote: Erich Orschler) for G Grumman Cheetah vom Nykontal, SchH3, FH, KK1. Cheetah had one leg so crooked I was afraid she'd sustain a rotation fracture when I tried to straighten it out some for the stack. She was an Ulk Bunglaow daughter, had dropped withers, no angulation to speak of, short croup, twiggy bones, hare feet, short tail, close coat and only a moderately pigmented red sable color. The only thing pretty about her was her face!  ...but boy could she work!

Actually, Orschler would probably have been doing me a favor if he had pronounced her "un-surveyed." She produced nothing of merit.

Chris - there are many dogs bred with the kkl in Germany who are NOT show dogs.  The dogs who go to the WUSV on the German team have a KKL (if they don't that is a rarity - and because of something like missing teeth or ball/s).  The dogs in the BSP are koered.  Working people follow the system too.

BEATING HEAD AGAINST WALL

I agree that perfect structure does not mean perfect working ability.  this is NOT black and white.  I am not a highline person in particular.  I have working dogs.  Both my dogs have Sch3 and SG KKL.  That does not mean they are show dogs.  They are black sable. 

Must search for the stacked shot of Cheetah. I still don't believe she got KK1 for life. By the time the second Korung rolled around she had TWO gold-capped canines, having broken both top ones off. You should have seen the judge's face when he looked in her mouth and found those expensive beauties! LOL

By the time the '90 Nationals was over she only had one of those left.  what a bitch!

"2500.00  is fair for a quality and excellent pup. if you think  $ 2500 .00 is too much go to a back-yard  breeder."

What a joke.  Price and quality are NOT always correlated.  If only it were that easy!

My husband's $1,300 Malinois is a superior working prospect to any of the six GSD's I've owned, with a price tag of $400 - $3,500 and everything in between.  And he never lets me forget it, either.  

Drew: Working people follow the system too.

No shit! That’s why all GSDs are show dogs!

Babe: My husband's $1,300 Malinois is a superior working prospect to any of the six GSD's I've owned, with a price tag of $400 - $3,500 and everything in between.

Wow! That’s interesting.

Does your husband’s Mali having any disqualifying faults?

Did the Mali’s parents have any type of breed test?

Did your six GSD’s parents have a breed test?

Why do you think your husbands dog works so much better than your GSDs?

Chris Smith,

Let me try to answer your questions to your satisfaction (which may not be possible)...

Disqualifying faults?  Considering that Malinois folk care more for whether or not the dog can work rather than what the angle of the forehand is... not sure.  She has been Xrayed by PennHIP this week and I do not have the results yet. In general, according to the OFA database, the Malinois breed beats the GSD breed hands down in regards to statistical probability of ED/HD dysplasia. 

Neither of the Mali's parents are titled. 

Most of my GSD's parents have been titled and surveyed, but all for naught.  Even if both parents have erect ears, I've had soft ears.  Even if the male had two, I've had one retained.  Even if both parents are a1-normal, I've had bad hips.  Even if both parents are SchH3, I've had weak temperament.

As to her working abiltiy, I can attest to that both personally and through the evaluation of an unbiased third party, a LEO who has more years of experience with police K9's than I've walked the face of this earth.

All this comes as an embarassement to me as I  try to persuade him that the GSD is "the most versatile working breed."  To add insult to injury, only one of the local police K9's is a full-blooded GSD... the rest are Mali's or Mali crosses. 

Question??

How are these BYB Mali breeders continuing to produce good working dogs without titled parents , Ko'ers, etc. What the hell criteria are they usind to consistently provide these Working dogs for LEO. Because I remember when our breed CONSISTENTLY produced dogs for LEO. And I see so many GS today that really could'nt cut it as a LEO/militaty dog. Why aren't these Mali people ruining their breed? I'm very confused...somebody help me here.