The SV no longer releasing Judges to the WDA - Page 5

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by Blitzen on 31 July 2015 - 13:07

Hi Richard,

Helen was not an SV judge prior to receiving her WUSV license. She aspired to be licensed by the SV and was certainly qualified, but politics prevented her from applying and she was born the wrong sex. She is over 70 now.

This is directed to anyone who wants to respond.........How has breeding per the SV rules improved the GSD in the US over last 20 or so years? As Hexe has pointed out, what about all the working people who don't title? Should they be forbidden to breed GSD's? Who would decide what is necessary in order to register a litter? Moses, Goldfarb, Gleason, Lanting, Yee.........?

Think that the AKC and/or the GSDCA should promulgate more rules to regulate breeding dogs in the US? Be very careful what you wish for.

 


by Blitzen on 31 July 2015 - 13:07

I asked this question on another breed board - do you think that the AKC and the parent breed clubs should require titles or health clearances in order to register a litter. Here is some of the response:

"Even though I like the idea of some kind of requirement to breed, I don't think the AKC or any other registry would ever agree. Their purpose is to register and track "purebred" dogs and not complying with any of those would not disqualify the "purebred" lineage"

"On the surface it seems reasonable...my personal preference working towards a working title, But, don't we all know about the wonderful bitches who produced fabulous litters but never made the conformation ring? Health cert makes the most sense".

"The problem in some countries though is the method of testing. How are we going to agree on what constitutes a proper test? This has been a subject of great dispute in some places.  It's a nice thought, but fundamentally, club required health testing is about the only thing I can think that would make sense. You get into gray area and governing agencies tend to prefer easy black and white decisions. It's great in theory, but in reality it's a lot of complicated details that would have to be settled and it would not end up being a perfect system. So I guess you decide which imperfect system you prefer. One with more breeder discretion or less".


10 hrs · Edited · "}"

by ILMD on 31 July 2015 - 14:07

to begin with, I'm not wishing for anything. In my case, I can look at the SV pedigree of my dogs, know the hip/elbow status for many, many generations. Know if they had a full mouth or not for those generations. Can be fairlycertain that the vets in Germany do everything possible to prevent "ringers" being used.

I don't breed but do agree with SV requirements. If you see no benefit it certainly doesn't mean that you are somehow more enlightened than the many here who choose to do so.


by Blitzen on 31 July 2015 - 14:07

I'm not talking about dogs bred in Germany. I'm asking how has breeding per the SV rules improved the GSD in the US over last 20 or so years and how would it work in the future? What about all the working people who don't title? Should they be forbidden to breed GSD's? Who would decide what is necessary in order to register a litter in the US and how would it be administered? When I said "be careful what you wish for" I was referring to all of that and not addressing any specific person.

Maybe it's time for breeders in the US to take responsibility for their choices and stop blaming AKC for enabling them to breed poor quality dogs?

And BTW, I don't think I'm any more "enlightened"  than anyone else who has opinions on AKC and the GSDCA and their role in governing dog breeders.


by Blitzen on 31 July 2015 - 14:07

An interesting comment from a Finnish dog breeder...

There are some countries that use a breeding license system. The dogs need hip/elbow x-rays (at least GOOD), clear eyes and I think two different judge's evaluation.
In Sweden you need Swedish working test to get a championship, here in Finland we ne
ed(for breeding) eyes clear of cataract, hip/elbow x-rays, but the results can be anything and we have to have microchips on all registered dogs. We also have a non-breeding registry, which is for litters that can't be registered normally.
I think our kennel club's goal is to have all dogs registered under them, eventually mixed-breeds too. We already have lots of rules for purebreds and breeding, but I think many oppose to that and breed without registration. That can become a problem, people(breeders) don't like to pay, pay and pay and get less and less in return, PLUS have this big, controlling club making more rules and demands for them. The club needs to be there for the dogs and the breeders, not the other way round.


Cutaway

by Cutaway on 31 July 2015 - 17:07

@Blitzen - I am not able to answer your direct question (not that you were singling me out). But I will address it a little differently. I see AKC Champion and Grand Champion GSD's that have earned their awards either just before or just after a year in age. Then the owners breed these dogs very soon after they earn their awards b/c other breeders want that title in their bloodline. Then within the year AFTER the show titles won and breeding done, these GSDs come down with problems that are now passed on to the offspring. A lot of the Grand/Champions have weak character and traits that should not be passed down the line. Making it mandatory that GSD's show they are: structurally sound, mental stability, prove their endurance, demonstrate their ability to scent, show a willingness to work, and prove their courage and trainability, would only improve the breed overall.

my biggest gripe with the AKC & GSDCA is not the American Shepherds they produce, its their lack of regulating what they register as a German Shepherd. There is corruption on both sides of the pond via judging and as long as their is money in the game, this corruption will continue to exist. But making breed suitability testing a prerequisite will slowly turn the American breed around. Until then, breeders will have little to change their breeding habits.


by Blitzen on 31 July 2015 - 18:07

Cutaway, I don't disagree with anything you have said. My biggest concern is - who would  US GSD breeders appoint to make the rules?  Who could they agree on to pass on the breed worthiness of their dogs?  It might have worked 50 years ago, but I think the ship has already sailed. It's still about the integrity and ethics of the individual. Maybe that's as it should be, I don't know. One thing I think I can say for certain, it ain't ever gonna happen in the US for many reasons.

How does the breed in America need to be "turned around"? Are the European GSD's really that much better today? I don't see it.


Cutaway

by Cutaway on 31 July 2015 - 19:07

Are the European GSD's really that much better today?

I believe they have a larger pool of top quality GSD's than we do. I know that there are some excellent GSD breeders here in the US, but maybe because the US is set upon a larger land mass, the 'good' breeders are harder to learn about. I am not nieve enough to believe that Germany does not have some crap breeders but i do believe Germany has more quality breeders and litters than we do in the US. I also believe that more German breeders put an emphasis on health, temperament, a dogs proven work ethic than most US breeders do. But then, Germany also shuts down for their National GSD tournament and in the US 99.98%+ of the population does not even know one exist here in the states LOL...

I do believe that because of breeding regulations that Germany produces larger quanties of quality GSD's then we do where its not regulated

and for anyone who wants to flame me.... These statements above are all made in Opinion without facts to back me up!!!

 

 


by vk4gsd on 31 July 2015 - 19:07

Every one just wants to be their own god in the gsd breed, rules and regulations are sins committed against said god/s.

Just demonstrate your dogs working would be a good starting point for breeders.

by Blitzen on 31 July 2015 - 20:07

Points well taken, cutaway. Some I haven't considered before.






 


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