Bitework Question: How should trainer progress. - Page 17

Bee

I don't know how Lord died. The manner in which you are insisting for an answer probably suggest you already know the answer. If not, maybe a " board expert " knows and will reply sometime later.

First...the point about the helper is that it's very sad that we've come to a place where the first thing we do is question the helper's ability and knowledge...especially a higher level helper that has clearly been doing it for multiple years. Second...from everything I’ve read of this dog, and being 22 months old, this is exactly how a dog like this would be started in bite work. The dog has been rag tested before, wasn’t interested, and being this type of dog, it’s not surprising that pressure from the helper is the way to get this dog to bite something.

As to the pedigree thing…what a joke. You’re relating the aggression in the dog to the backwards mask which comes from a dog 11 generations back? Yeah…that’s the reason the dog has aggression. Has absolutely nothing to do with the mess closer up. Those wondering how a “novice” gets a dog like this? Take a look at the pedigree and it’s pretty easy to see. The parents don’t have any titles (so let’s just guess what kind of breeder the dog comes from). The dam’s parents don’t have any titles. The bottom of the pedigree is just a mess of lines and the top has a little more direction to it until you get to the last breeding pair which is clearly just someone breeding their two dogs. The dog is 2-3 line bred on a dog for no apparent reason and has so many other line breedings closer up that there is no way to tell where what is coming from. I would actually love to hear the reasoning why such a breeding even happened other than convenience.

This is what pedigree "experts" do. They see a dog, find out the qualities of the dog, then start searching as far back in the pedigree as they can to make a connection to some dog that is "known" for those qualities.

The pedigree is but one part of the equation, and many of us that have looked at the pics posted of the dog have identified a possible genetic link to behaviour due to the "reverse mask" inheritance. The dog's lineage should give an indication of the inherent tendencies of behaviour that MAY be genetically expressed in this dog, but that is not to say they WILL be expressed. Given the genetics, and Mithuna's knowledge of such, as well as the behaviours already expressed, means that Mith should take extra care in the handling of such a dog. CONTROL work is critical, and IMO should have been done from day 1, especially now that the dog is doing man-work. Obedience work will not diminish the work of this dog, and if done properly during man-work, may actually increase drive (well executed obedience reward with bite).

I stated many pages ago that if Mith trusts the trainer, then ask the question posed here of the trainer. We still don't know if the questions were asked, nor do we know the answers. We have no video although Mith said that it would be posted. The well-intentioned responses of people who are concerned with the dogs' and publics' safety have been summarily dismissed by the OP. This thread seems to be a fishing trip, and a waste of time/response. From now on, I for one am going to ignore posts from the OP.

Maybe Prager can weigh in on this.

BV many of the dogs throughout the ped have been linebred on Ex Reidstern. What the trainer said about the behavior profile have been accurate so far.

Mithuna since I read his first post way back on other threads he has always talked in riddles .never give a straight answer and always contradicts any advice by others . I don't know much about the pedigree of his dog but I'm getting to know the pedigree of the person

koots: "and many of us that have looked at the pics posted of the dog have identified a possible genetic link to behavior due to the "reverse mask" inheritance"

identify one instance where anyone of the " many of us " have stated the claim you make above.
I have mentioned what the trainer said many times.

Yogi " since I read his first post way back on other threads he has always talked in riddles .never give a straight answer and always contradicts any advice by others."

Can you give specifics. And as i said before some of the advise is lacking in aesthetics, and can be challenged. Based on my direct experience with some hound dogs I challenged the example of a " board expert " ,that the dog smelling the house after a stranger departs was a sign of fear of scent. All the good advice I have appreciated. And btw this is merely an internet forum, not some legally binding educational contract in which I am subject to an evaluation and to be given a grade.

Wow, Hans crystal ball really works, SMH.

So many are claiming to have known the probable reverse mask link ( bee/ Koots ) but no one is producing a quote where it was mentioned other than by Hans. When I searched the ped.... a lot of Lord and Ex came up. I have listed some of it a few posts above this one.

@Swarnendu. First of all were on a GSD forum, the pedigree database is another section of the site. So what is your suggestion now you have seen the pedigree.

I wonder what Prager saw in the picture, i saw a nice dog. The reverse mask thing is a myth never proven to be accurate.

Pedigree means potential (nature) the rest is nurture. So maybe knowledgeable people know that at this point, its about training and establishing leadership.

I recall a post from the owner where he was looking for a VET in the Newyork area because his VET refuses to see his dog because of the aggression. Now Vets are no trainers but they can see if someone has control on his dog.

Dogs are not entirely pedigree but more what you raise them to be. Don't know if the dog has injured anyone yet, but do you think after reading all his posts.