Just Curious, Where the ASL people at - Page 5

vk, don't misquote me. I never said an HIC was herding. It tests instinct. My dogs don't have HICs (I don't even bother with those). I'm working animals towards higher level titles.

 

by Xeph on 31 December 2016 - 01:12

 

I'm sure that both people with "bad club experiences" on this thread will come on and tell me that their dogs had tons of drive and would've easily titled if not for all the sideline talk.

No, that's the assumption you made.  I knew exactly what I had in the bitch I was working.  She was a club level girl, IPO1 at most.  But she did the work and enjoyed it.  I LOVED her retrieves and desire to do.  She was the driviest AmLine I ever had, and she was a lot of fun.

I'm not spending 9 hours of my day with jerks while I'm trying to work my dog.

The personal protection dog "crowd" aka byb who doesn't test or prove their stock with trials or titles and minimal health testing are now the prolific posters these days.

The ASL crowd has no use for their brand of BS because it ends up being all talk justifying and ignoring the breed standard goals for selling self described exceptional preferences.

This is appealing to people who want to project a certain image through their dog ownership with minimal effort or understanding of one of the top three most popular breeds of dog in the USA and have discovered this is a proven fast track to respectability as a breeder. The irony is how the accomplishments of ASL show titles or SV style ratings and breed surveys are often their biggest opportunities for name dropping with sounding credible in the absence of hands on experience.

All it takes is a photo of a dark sable dog showing bared teeth and a little slobber for the BS to begin.

xeph...how did you know that? How many ipo titles have you achieved? How much time did you spend at the club to know 100% that your dog would title? Retrieves are not the only part of titling in IPO. Drive matters little in regards to titling in obedience, as long as the dog does it, you'll pass. There are also 2 other phases, exactly what was the dog doing in those two?

But wait...you knew for sure she'd title...

Excuses...no club would bad mouth your dog as long as you were going there and working at it. 80% of dogs at clubs lack drive or nerve strength, they don't get a pass because of their lines. If your dog had the drive, no one would say anything. Theres a reason you won't actually post the club name...too much risk that someone would see it and refute your false story.

You are the perfect example of what I was talking about with IPO people (in general as not all). I don't think that the fact her dog can't or can title is the issue.... The issue is we SHOULD NOT badmouth GSDs of ANY bloodline!! And IPO culture does not get that. Like you clearly showed with your post!

We should SUPPORT each other. Some people NEVER want to title. Some just like training and spending time with their dogs building a connection. I know one woman that has been doing agility classes for years. She has never stepped in the ring to compete. But, her dog has fun and she has fun and it is their "special" time together. That attitude of...unless you want to title or your dog CAN title than get lost...is not helpful.

And, I and others like me, have no problem paying a drop in fee to helper for their time. And, believe it or not, the helpers I have seen are VERY VERY GOOD at right away evaluating a dog and changing their presentation accordingly. And, they genuinely want to see each dog progress. They know if a dog lacks nerve and they try to build confidence. They want to HELP people bring the best out of their dogs.

I am just saying that the IPO world has the potential to be inclusive and memberships would skyrocket but the ball is in their court.

Smiley...like I said...go volunteer your time at a club for 8 hours a weekend and tell me how inclusive you want to be. With limited resources and time, dogs get pushed out. This is at its core still a breed test, if you dog fails the evaluation period…there’s no need to keep training it. That’s how club works. Especially if there are other people behind you waiting to work their dogs or get their dogs evaluated. People are voted out of clubs ALL THE TIME when they’re not trialing or titling dogs. Clubs have waiting lists of people, why would someone taking up space and time be included over someone that actually wants to accomplish goals? Want to know the difference with your agility friend? She probably pays hefty fees for training and reimburses people for their time and effort they put into the dog. $5-$10 to a helper…isn’t enough when they’ve got 5 dogs behind yours that might achieve something, might be easier to work/train, and are also willing to pay the same fee.

The problem isn’t with Schutzhund or it’s clubs…it’s people feeling entitled and not understanding how a club works. Become a burden for it, you’re gone, the club keeps going. It’s not IPO culture…it’s all dog related things. Want to know the reaction/acceptance I got when I went with my WL dog to take some conformation classes? Yeah…wasn’t pretty. I didn’t care, I didn’t cry, I didn’t rip the whole group online…I understood why they were the way they were. Time is limited, they don’t care to work with someone who is never going to enter a show or if they do, won’t do anything in it…better to teach someone that might actually enter a show or accomplish something with their dog.

Club will always be different from private training. Pay people for their time…they’ll deal with you…expect above and beyond training from volunteers…you don’t understand human nature.

And therein lies the dilemma.....is IPO a breed test or a sport?

And..I have volunteered....plenty... at club events and also at SV Sieger events.

I was told to use an ecollar because that was "protocol for everyone regardless of need". I was trying to title but there are no spots for new members unless you know a friend of a friend. So, I showed up through all weather paying a ridiculously high drop in fee. I have photos of us tracking in snow- even when the "members" failed to show up only 50% of the time.

I went to three different clubs and the attitude was the same for the iPO clubs with the exception of the club I went to that was PSA. They were welcoming and didn't have the same attitude you possess. I guess their time wasn't valuable. In IPO, I watched dogs screaming in pain and slinking on ground with harsh corrections. And nobody said a God damn word. NOBODY. When I tried, they told me to "grow a thicker skin". It IS a different culture. People say that ...well...my IPO dog is my pet but these were not pets like you would think. They were a means to an end. And..I showed up with a german working line shepherd. Can you imagine if I walked onto the training field with an ASL?

And, it is the IPO world that has the problem.

Also, you just chose the wrong venue for conformation. Try UKC. You will be welcomed..they love working line shepherds.

So, don't bitch to me and tell me IPO is not like I had said. I heard and saw sh*t that you wouldn't believe...with NATIONAL competitors who are "well respected".

You agreed with me completely by saying IPO has no use for those that can't title. That is exclusive to IPO and that is the attitude on this forum. Agility, herding, obedience, rally, tracking, dock diving..you name a sport and the attitude is..hey, give it a try...all are welcome. And..that's why IPO is going to go down the tubes. We had a chance to start clubs and be inclusive and let people see if their dog could do it and if they enjoyed it. We are failing.

It's your same crap attitude that litters this form. I don't care if you do IPO. Hell, I support USCA and maintain my USCA membership. But, don't come on a forum and treat people like crap because "the only real dog is a titled IPO dog". I can tell you I saw IPO 3 dogs that were worth absolute crap and I would never breed. These dogs were not balanced. A titled dog does not mean a breed worthy dog.

You are a perfect example of exactly the attitude I originally posted about......

Instead of saying, I do IPO and you might not but that's ok. Instead, you say..your dog sucks unless it is titled and has proven its "worth". That is the attitude that my original post was about.

This forum should be place where we can all appreciate the greatness of our shepherds...whether IPO dogs, show dogs, performance dogs, etc. Our Breed rocks and we should support all facets of our breed in everything they do. I know you think that you guys are part of an exclusive club that battles through all conditions to train and pat your self on the back but newsflash.....we all work our asses off training and you don't own hard work, passion and dedication.

So, in closing.......

We should be proud of the type of sport we do with our shepherds and champion that sport. It's ok to be be passionate about the sport we love. I love hearing about successful IPO stories. I love hearing about successful performance stories, conformation stories, search and rescue, service dogs, and companion stories...our breed is amazing!

Boast all you want about IPO and I won't be offended. But, please, please don't tear others down.

I found it difficult to call out IPO because it goes against my "kumbaya nature". But, the reality is that on this forum that crowd seems to be the cancer.

So, I am posting in the hope that we can all just get along and let each other be....I am probably more emotional about IPO because I truly feel like it has the potential to be an amazing opportunity for people to train their dogs and explore their dog's athletic potential. It is an incredible sport and one that I really could have enjoyed if things had been different. Unfortunately, so many people do not have the opportunity to explore this sport and it is a shame. But, maybe things will change..I can only hope.

And...I can only hope that this forum can move forward in unity. That is my last negative post as what was said.. had to be said ...and now its time to move on.




 

I love it when people tell me I didn't have the experience I said I had. Because obviously they were there.

Nooooo, nobody is tactless enough to crap on a dog while the owner is RIGHT THERE! Never!!

So one of you went to 3 clubs, the other one went to 1, and now all clubs are horrible and bad. Congrats. You're on the right track.

Smiley…I wasn’t talking about the show…I was talking about TRAINING. I went to training and was dismissed. I told them I’d be showing in UKC, and it didn’t matter one bit, my dog was not worthy of their time or effort.

Other sports are much easier and open. Very few clubs, mostly pay a trainer type of thing. When you pay…people HAVE to work with you…when you expect volunteer work…people can CHOOSE to not work with you. You volunteered to help out…not to PHYSICALLY work the dogs. Although people like you are wonderful and necessary…if you want to equate what you did to a HELPER or TD busting their butt all day on a weekend…you’re out of your mind. Try to keep track of upwards of 20 dogs, all that need to be worked differently and have different issues or things to work past…it’s not easy. But who am I to know? You volunteered to hand out some things at a club trial/sieger show…pretty much the same thing as training/working dogs weekly knowing 90% will go home and not do anything until the following Sunday.

Other sports are much less time consuming and life engulfing. You go, you have fun, eventually you might title. Btw…the people that want to have success on a higher level, work a lot harder in many of those sports as well. With IPO, even a club title is difficult to achieve and takes a ton of time and energy, outside of club time. Time and energy 99% of people don’t have or want to put into their dog. Yet many times, they expect a TD or helper to put that energy into their dog when they’re not willing to do it themselves. So yeah…they’ll be dismissed.

Congrats on the lies and rumors you spread about how IPO clubs train btw…much respect. Thanks for your USCA membership…but the things you say about how IPO is trained based on your experience at 3 clubs are horrible. Maybe you should talk about the culture you witnessed just about the 3 clubs you went to (huge amount of experience btw), and not spread it to the entire population that you have clearly never met.

Xeph...you spent less than what? A few months training? Wasn't the dog you speak of 9 months old when you found out it had crippling hip dysplasia? Or were you talking about another dog? You’re right…you have tons of experience with IPO. Keep on retrieving…

Had a bad experience? Name the club…neither of you are willing to do so though, too much risk that someone will see your story and have facts to dispute it. Easier to talk in abstract.

Bavarian..this is my last post as I am not going to continue your game.

There is a reason we do not name the names of Competitors or the Clubs for all to view on an internationally public forum...it's called...class. Have a great day.