by duke1965 on 30 May 2019 - 18:05
defence, no food agression, think that first dog has possability to become nice dog
by Juno on 30 May 2019 - 18:05
You are correct I did spoil him.
Agree with you as well. In my case I do have control over him but it is not precise so for competition purposes he will either fail or not do good. However; he is not an out of control dog, he would probably be fine in law enforcement based on evaluation done by a broker/trainer who provides Service dogs to the US Govt and also for law enforcement, as he offered to take him off my hands. This was an evaluation he did when he was 6 months old and found out how strong he was. He did warn me that I had already spoiled him and it would be a challenge to have him fully under control. He was right in most of his evaluations but my dog is not and never been handler aggressive. Although as you know he will not allow anyone but me to take his toys away from me. I have several other trainers offer to buy him off of me. He is not going anywhere.
by Juno on 30 May 2019 - 19:05
One more comment - both the TD of the PSA club and the IPO club before I switched to PSA said my dog was too civil and will bite for real. He got bored if just presented a sleeve and would much rather bite a suit where he could really engage the decoy.
by ValK on 30 May 2019 - 20:05
juno, it's still can be corrected but outcome relys on dog's ability to handle and recover from stressful punishment and handler's experience to not overstep boundary in conflict.
duke, any aggression foremost is defense. the matter only - defense of what... own life, offspring, territory, belongings, own status.
in that video both dogs did well. difference only that first dog did went into state of active aggression, in which beside of opponent, nothing else matter. if being free, he will attack and not stop 'till kill or be killed.
second dog showed passive aggression. his attention splits between food and opponent. back off, leave him alone and problem solved. doesn't mean he is weak dog. it's just he has different priorities and character.
by Juno on 30 May 2019 - 21:05
Using compulsion on my dog has been counterproductive that’s why I stopped as he would just amp up. He can take hard corrections and not even feel it when on drive. I taught him the “aus” by using the 2 ball technique but even then he has to be really tired to do the “sus” consistently. I am fine with him, but I know he could have been really good in sports with a better handler. As Duke mentioned in a previous thread he is the same dog but not a great champion. I am over it as I see what type of dog he is and so do working dog folks I know.
by apple on 31 May 2019 - 11:05
In any sport, there are dogs that will bite for real. The control required in PSA verges on the ridiculous, but it is a challenge. That is why it is so important to find the proper guidance to deal with a dog like yours when he is a pup if you want to compete in a particular sport. My sense was not that your dog was out of control, but rather, didn't have the control needed for sport.
The statement, "any aggression foremost is defense" is totally inaccurate. In your mind, that is your belief because you haven't taken the time to learn the nuances of aggression, the different emotional states that underlie them, or how to recognize them. That is probably why you prefer a more one dimensional, defensive dog. I wasn't impressed by either dog. If is hard to tell how much is training vs. genetics. A dog with strong defensive aggression would have been at the end of the chain trying his best to hurt the soldier jabbing them with a stick. Both dogs were hesitant and mainly wanted to chase the threat away with defensive posturing. The bite was shallow, which you might expect with a dog in defense who has had poor training or lack of confidence. I agree with Duke that the first dog was the better of the two but would not want either of them.
by Juno on 31 May 2019 - 11:05
Agree with your assessment of my dog. Yours truly mucked it up as far as competition and sports with my type of dog.
by emoryg on 31 May 2019 - 15:05
Valk, thank you for sharing the video. I have not conducted that test in quite some time, but it brings back lots of memories. Both dogs give a glimpse of their character, with the first dog having a more appropriate response for my own liking. The first dog brings immediate power to the equation by becoming the aggressor early in the confrontation. I was very impressed with his body language, confidence and desire to move forward. However, I was also impressed with the recovery time on that second dog. This is over a bowl of food in a relative healthy looking animal who does not appear emaciated and subject to survival instincts. Because it is a test, it’s reasonable to conclude that this is not his everyday living quarters or part of his daily routine. Testing like this should always remove environmental influences.
You would be surprised by the number of dogs who cannot recover and give up the food under little pressure when taken from their familiar surroundings (kennel). I was once told it is like the sailor on the sea and his ship is under attack. Something yells abandon ship and over the side and into the water he goes to swim to a safe place. But we can see some other impulse begin to emerge on the second dog. As he heads for the rail of the ship, something inside tells him to man the battle stations and he begins to assert himself. In the very beginning he offers the verbal warning shots. When the pressure mounts (hit to the head) he retreats to a safe distance. This is a very common display for that test. What is less common is for him to attempt to reestablish his position in relation to the food. Watch the body language become more favorable as does his mounting displays of aggression, despite the tester not deviating from his initial assault methods. Though he may not have a bigger heart than the first dog, I would not be surprised if after a few test like that it grows bigger by the day.
by apple on 31 May 2019 - 17:05
Here is a link to what looks like a Mal cross doing some bite work. The dog looks to be biting in prey/fight. The first bite there is zero prey movements to stimulate the bite. The second bite there is very little prey movement to stimulate the bite. Notice the dog's grip, shaking the bite, countering forward, wrapping of legs, desire to fight while tail wagging. I see no defense in this dog but I would definitely bet he would bite for real on command or if attacked. This dog is 100% more confident than the dogs shown in the old video. Granted, it is a different breed, but that is the type of confident, serious aggression I like to see. Plus, the dog is a female.
by K9L1 on 31 May 2019 - 18:05
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