Serious Breeders - Page 11

One teeny thing, Susie: if studs were as close as 100 miles, I think they'd be used more. In my area, within a 5 hour driving radius, there is literally a small handful of titled, surveyed dogs. Madox is already getting repeat breedings- yes, people are happy, but also, there are very few choices even within one DAY drive, not just a few hours. We drive 100 miles just to go to training ;) From my house, the nearest club is 50 miles. The nearest GOOD club is closer to 100 miles. Again, I don't disagree with your points- I just thought it was a little funny the "100 miles" comment since that would make most Americans very, very happy. If I want to use a stud in California, that is 3 full days of driving, one way. Very hard to compare distance and logistics between Europe and USA. We are so spread out.

Good point, Jenni.
Susie, your last 3 posts make PERFECT SENSE to me !

First...American breeders are not going to the high scoring dog, that's a flat out lie and understandable why someone who doesn't live in this country would think that. Look at the "breeding announcements" or "litter plans" on working dog for our top scoring/world team dogs...they have like 5 or less breedings scheduled or planned. That idea is once again Internet propaganda and repeated information from people who lack experience or are jealous/mad their useless male isn't being bred to.

Second...no Jen, there isn't a "small handful of breed surveyed dogs within a 5 hour drive" of you. There are actually a lot of them. Considering 4-5 or more of the world team dogs or dogs that were at the qualifier are within that distance, there are plenty more titled and breed surveyed national and regional competitors in that range as well. There are plenty of home grown, handler titled, non-imported dogs available for use...just need to be involved in IPO and the region in order to know that. If you expand it to a day...you can easily get to the east coast and encompass pretty much 80% of the titled/breed surveyed dogs in this country. California and the west coast is truthfully the only things that's a hike.

There are "few choices" because many people fall for Internet fame and good marketing rather than actually getting out and seeing dogs. Like I've stated, it's easier for a breeder to tell stories than to get their dog out and compete...competition will likely show that the dog is lacking and doesn't stand up to their contemporaries.

BW, I guess it depends on what you consider a handful. Don't tell me I'm just not aware of them, lol. I have been scouring the corners of the area for quite a while now. I'd like you to list these SURVEYED dogs and let's see how many there are, really. And, it's not just titled and surveyed- they have to be compatible. Yep, I'm sticking with a small handful (that would fit my standards, anyway).

Surely if BW can refer us to the notified "breeding plans" on the Working Dog site, as being "5 or less breedings scheduled", that bears out what Jenni is saying (rather than it being "a flat out lie")?  If the world team of the USA / top scoring IPO dogs of America are typical, they too will have owners who are selecting carefully, for dogs that suit their bitches in an all-round way (ie not just bringing the ability to bring points-scoring to the party), because most of those owners will be people wanting to be 'responsible, serious, breeders' also ? Else the owners of those top dogs would have queues of unsuitable, untrialed, un-health tested bitches lining up, from owners who just want the reflected glory so they can sell lots of puppies ? (I'm sure the studs' owners turn a few of these down, anyway !)

There have always been less 'equally qualified' bitches to bring to the top dogs, although in these slightly more enlightened times I undertand that ratio is gradually changing; but anyway if you have a consistently high placing bitch you do not necessarily want to withdraw her from competition for maternal duties, any more than the Show faction want a successful bitch out of the Ring at that stage of her life. So out here in the real world, even the 'better' breeders and owners are likely to bring a sister or mother or daughter to the 'top scoring' dog; or take her elsewhere, to a de facto 'inferior' dog.

Here's a quick list:

Dexter vom Eisernen Kreuz
Girome von Schloss Berge (not sure about KKL)
Ari vom Gilbach (not sure about KKL)
Moose von Hugelblick
Kent von Aurora Teufelblut
Jedi ze Stribneho Kamene
Gordon vom Kellnerhof
Carro von der Feldweise
Athos von den Wannaer Hohen
Boy vom Zorra
Hajo vom Marchgraben
Gazze von der Kleinen Birke
Casper Barnero (not sure about KKL)
Bono North SVK
Loki Orrylordblack (not sure about KKL)
Uddo Majoruv Haj (not sure about KKL)
Szaxo Vom Fluchtweg (not sure about KKL)
Drazen Gojojovan (not sure about KKL)
Dog zur Krombach
Iko vom Guldenen Winkel
Tschako vom Wallerhorst

I'm also missing plenty of dogs that I can't think of their names. An ACTUAL HANDFUL of these dogs will be competing at our regional, if they're not "up to your standard" you should think about entering your dog and showing us all what "your standard" is.

There are four dogs on that list I'd breed to sight unseen simply because I know the owners of said dogs and know those owners are absolutely honest and are not shy to tell you about their dogs weaknesses.

Interesting how many of the dogs listed above have Vito Waldwinkel within the first three generations. If a bitch owner wasn't looking to linebreed on him, that would eliminate quite a number of those as candidates.

At 12 years of age, is Boy still doing live cover, or is he available strictly via AI?

BE you would breed some of those dogs because owners are trustworthy, that is a whole new concept to me

I would like to see a dog outside his own place, not on his own helper/trained program, to see if he would be good for me to use

the fact they are titled and their owners are trustworthy doesnot make a dog breedingmaterial, and/or the best match to anyones female per se 

And that's the problem Duke. Ó that dog is titled so he must be worth breeding no real test don't bother checking how do is in new environments. Makes me wonder