SV going to change the rules - Page 7

George Foreman and Mike Tyson both have incredible fighting skills and completely different temperaments.
Which man would you want to hang around with?

Skill and temperament do not go hand in hand.


 

I would suspect that the Shawnicus "backbone" definition equates to how well abuse is tolerated.

Objections or displays of capitulation would be labeled as weakness and failures. This is actually unfair to the most thinking and intelligent individuals, dog or otherwise.

Definitely Not a good post , To a lot of you commenting, balanced means a dog with basically no backbone but I don't even know why I get into it with u guys none of u even own any working dogs much less work them or are involved in working dogs, just regurgitating nonsense u read on the web but Iam gonna go ahead and disagree on what a balance dog should be

 

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

You are in the wrong breed, period!

The breed standard is very clear on temperament! The breed standard states "absolutely neutral" and "good-natured"

If you don't agree with the standard, start your own breed. The shelters are full of them. Thanks for the contribution.

For the WUSV to interfere with one of the fundamental but important requirements for a working dog is a disgrace. Even more of a disgrace is that the SV are going along with the changes. I sincerely hope that the SV reconsider and refuse to accept this change that does nothing for the breed other than to diminish the value of the founders breed standard which has stood the test of time for more than 100 years.

I do not think that the ruling body at this time has the right people to protect the breed. The fall in standards has been falling since the time when Hermann Martin became President. In my opinion the Koermeisters from that time should have reacted differently towards the President and the blame for what we see today can be laid squarely at their feet. Some of these people are still around today. The Koermeister’s as a body should be saying as a body “what can we do for the breed” instead of saying “what can the breed do for us collectively and individually”. Even more importantly the Koermeisters today should be saying the same and, step up to the plate to restore the status of the breed to it’s rightful place as a working dog as intended by the founders.

Mackenzie

Although I still hope for it, I doubt a "revolution" will happen ( still waiting for the next elections...)

After all WUSV = SV
that said, WUSV will do what SV wants...

We ( the Germans ) tried to to sell the "benchmark" GSD, no matter what, now we have to deal with the result -

- the WUSV members are not willing/able to follow the German standard,
- whereas the Germans are sick of the international competition not bred by German standard
- to the same time a lot of pressure from German law in case of "bitework" as a whole...

"My" solution would be to get rid of all those countries not breeding/performing according to SV rules,
but even within our own country society ( and law ) changed -

not enough SV members within Germany = we have to be afraid the GSD will become officially a "dangerous breed" like almost every medium/big sized breed ( even mutts ) before.

It´s very difficult - I don´t think the GSD needs to be one of the most famous breed, no matter what.
Others think different .

I guess at the end it´s about supply and demand -
demand = a nice dog looking like a GSD
supply = breeding nice dogs looking like a GSD

The "Koermeisters" will not question the "system" - almost all of them are "big players" in breeding and selling high rated dogs, for them it doesn´t matter, and "we" ( the regular members ) don´t care, we just want to train our dogs, that said "we" tend to send always the same people to the elections, "we" are guilty because we don´t care, "we" don´t complain because we are afraid to loose money we never earned...

A "temperament test" for young dogs is no bad idea in itself, but to skip the IPO for a "IPO light" as requirement for breeding at least for me is a major fault.

Forget about globalisation, forget about numbers of sales, but concentrate on good, able to work dogs...

Won´t happen, too bad...

Off topic, but - once again - Rummel made Hermann Martin famous - he supported him and his dogs.
No breeder, no judge, no exhibitor was forced to use his dogs.
People decided to do so on their own, they liked his dogs, plain and simple ( and the most influental dogs bred by H. Martin were born before he became president ).

It´s our own fault - always has been - always will be.
We ( the Germans ) do elect our representatives by majority.

Good post Susie.

When we look around us the world politics are changing and it is time that the SV followed suit. Like Governments they cannot continue to ignore the people if they want to. Where would the breed be now if the ordinary Clubman did not continue to train their dogs and try to uphold the standards that came from the founders. Thank goodness that there are new people coming in year on year. The big problem not being faced is that older members are leaving because they know that they cannot achieve top honours because they are being squeezed out by the money men.

Germany has to continue on the right path to maintain good dogs and bloodlines and breeding families. Almost every country in the world wants to import German dogs but as Susie points out they do not follow the system. If these people will not follow the German system they should be dumped. Too many Countries are of no benefit to the breed as a whole. The WUSV know this but do not address the problems. It is not satisfactory to undermine the SV and the breed standard by changing the breed standard to lower values to suit the mass’s.

Susie said “ Off topic, but - once again - Rummel made Hermann Martin famous - he supported him and his dogs.
No breeder, no judge, no exhibitor was forced to use his dogs.
People decided to do so on their own, they liked his dogs, plain and simple ( and the most influential dogs bred by H. Martin were born before he became president ). This comment is true.

I think that it should be noted that the influential dogs from Hermann Martin before he became President was at a time when he was Bundeszuchtwart (Breed Warden) and he was already in the hierarchy within the SV. This is where, when judging the females, he was able to lay the foundations for when he became President. Also, it is true that nobody was forced to use his dogs. The problem is that the inbreed that Herr Martin led the breeders into was based on the dogs of himself, his brother (v.d Wienerau) and Wildsteiger Land. The result being that the Q litter Arminius, Zamb v d Wienerau and Uran v Wildsteiger Land could not be avoided at some point in the bloodline. Breeders, whether they liked these dogs, or, not struggled to get away from them. This unfortunate inbreed is now cemented into the show lines. All of these dogs have behind them Lasso di Val Sole. This dog came to the fore and became famous when Dr Rummel was returning from the Italien Sieger with Walther Martin. Martin pointed out the colour of Lasso had the WOW factor because he was the colour of the breed today. This was at a time when there was many pale dogs in Germany. Lasso came to the Sieger Show in Germany and became VA 11 in 76, VA13 in 77 and VA 5 in 1979. He was Italien Sieger in 78 and 79. His sire is Quanto v d Wienerau.

Mackenzie

Seems to me a lot of people liked Lasso for more than his flashy colour. Not sure it is helpful to the situation today to dwell on what some few individual dogs did or did not bring to the table.

Mack sez : "Thank goodness there are new people coming ..." into the breed, year on year - in theory I agree, we always need the 'next generation', but have you considered that in many cases it is those new people who ARE the "money men" ?

It certainly seems to be some of the newer / younger people who are responsible for the strange ideas about their ideals of temperament that feature on these pages, and yet they are the worst for complaining about the SV standards slipping ...

What I am missing are the "normal" GSD owners nowadays:

Owners either
1. breed / handle for points, no matter the standard
or
2. breed / handle for show results, no matter the working abilities
3. the "rest" just wanting to have fun with their dog, be it agility, obedience, SAR, or anything else - those people neither care about standard nor working ability as described in the standard.

4. are those who try to breed GSDs looking like GSDs and behaving like GSDs.
They are the minority - they are out there, but not that easy to find ( no champions )

"We" forgot about the main reason for the existance of this breed : a working dog, looking like the standard describes ...

"Working line" folks want to win the trial, no matter the standard -
"Show Line" folks want to win the show, no matter the working ability...

both of them are wrong.

You Suzy, it's funny, I often hear the old timers criticized on this forum,( about number 4), but the reality is that most active people in number one or number two, have no idea of what number 4 is; often saying that it's a fictional concept of our imagination. But there was a no4 type of dog that some of us lived for and still breed for. So, in essence, I think your post validated much of what some ( especially me) of us have said the breed used to be. Thanks!