What do we miss about the older bloodlines? - Page 6

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Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 24 October 2016 - 19:10

A strong confident dog doesn't start the fight. He finishes it!

If you have a dog that consistently needs to be managed than that's not a strong dog in my opinion.

I have dogs with very high aggression but you won't see that aggression because there is no need, no threat to show it. All of our dogs in the past had a very high level of aggression but they also always had confidence and a good temperament. Without that, you have a liability, not a strong dog!


susie

by susie on 24 October 2016 - 19:10

Baerenfang, you need to differ between a strong dog with high aggression raised and trained by more than experienced handlers/trainers like your parents, and a strong dog, raised and (not) trained by pet people.

The same dog may become the perfect dog in home #1, but a nightmare in home #2.

Sometimes it´s pretty easy to foretell the outcome...

Mithuna

by Mithuna on 25 October 2016 - 17:10

Good point Susie

If the dog is not carefully raised it can eventually wreak havoc in a home; sometimes as the dog matures and bonds more deeply with the handler a substantial amount of natural obedience can be elicited from the dog as well.
I don't know what makes Collin special but obviously he was very much appreciated by his breeder. Ma said that Collin had to yanked from further KNPV titling because he broke a tooth on the suit and they could not get him to stop going always for the decoy's chest.
I think Ma is still producing good dogs such as Inox and Kobalt

by Bavarian Wagon on 25 October 2016 - 18:10

I hope you don’t take this the wrong way…but have you ever met a breeder who doesn’t speak the world of their dogs? Of course the breeder is going to think their dog is amazing, but when it doesn’t get bred to by outside breeders I always wonder why that is. Especially in Europe where people do take more chances and are much more open to breeding to other dogs because their customers tend to actually go and watch dogs so a good dog on the field would be seen without winning regional/national/world championships.

He’s also not that old, he’s 2 years older than what most would consider one of the most successful stud dogs and producers in Tom van’t Leefdaalhof, and only 6 years younger than Troll von der bosen Nachbarschaft. Two of the major dogs that people either blame for the shift to more driven dogs or dogs that people praise for having proper aggression (I can never get a clear picture). I’m not sure if the most ethical and honest of breeders are capable of being objective about their own dogs. I think if they’re competing at a high level they know what they need and if they’re washing their own stock you can see that they don’t think their dogs are capable of that, but if they’re just titling at their local club and not worried about much past that…most speak as if what they produce is the best thing out there. I don’t really blame them though because a lot has to come together in order to produce a dog that might do something noteworthy.

Cutaway

by Cutaway on 25 October 2016 - 19:10

@Mithuna - in my very humble opinion, I think all here are smart enough to find proper words without calling anyone names.  Western Rider... Training & living with a high drive, "strong dog" can be a real handful. Sure it has its fun side, but a down side too. And i am sure what i am considering a strong dog is minimal in comparison to what others call a strong dog.

This isnt meant to be a 'brag' post and i am not really going to say much to defend why i say I have a: Strong, dominant, not as biddable arse hole. But i will say that it as equally challenging as it is fun. This guy has taught me a lot, and a lot of people want to breed to him, but I honestly dont know if i could do another like him


susie

by susie on 25 October 2016 - 20:10

"... sometimes as the dog matures and bonds more deeply with the handler a substantial amount of natural obedience can be elicited from the dog as well."

Do you really think so?

A strong dog only submits to a strong handler ( not harsh or brutal, but consistent and fair ). Dogs of this kind are not Lassie.
And in a family surrounding like yours the dog at least needs to tolerate the rest of the family ( way easier for females than for males ).

Will your female accept another puppy in the household? She sounds like a spoiled singleton...able to screw up even the best pup, and a "forever" life in the basement is no option for a dog - you like dogs...

Besides all that hips would be a deal breaker for me - a 2/2 inbreeding on a litter with 2 littermates with severe HD is too risky for me.


Cutaway

by Cutaway on 25 October 2016 - 21:10

A strong dog only submits to a strong handler ( not harsh or brutal, but consistent and fair )

That was the simplest but hardest concept to learn and still occasionally struggle with it!!! When i am not fair, its a nasty situation LOL (not that he has bitten me but earlier on, i knew i was on the verge of getting bit a few times) but man oh man will it get noisy and freak others around me out. Worst was when he decided that he was done tracking and i had other ideas in mind. 

But the more consistent, black and white and FAIR i am, the better the progress, the less tension and the more enjoyable. Sadly, i have realized that this is the first dog i have ever respected. I thought i showed my previous dog (just a family pet) respect but sadly I really didnt


Mithuna

by Mithuna on 25 October 2016 - 22:10

Cut can you put up a link to his ped.
In our house my female will bite other family members if they try to get her to do something she does not want to do. Has only snapped at me a few times I attempted to correct her in drive. Otherwise shes a real homie with us.

susie

by susie on 25 October 2016 - 22:10

"In our house my female will bite other family members if they try to get her to do something she does not want to do."

You remember our discussions almost one year ago?
Good luck with your next dog...

Cutaway

by Cutaway on 26 October 2016 - 00:10

@Mithuna - Please excuse the picture, its a pretty old one. Again, i am not trying to say my dog is all that, not even saying he has a 'Great' or 'Top' pedigree. Others from this board have chimed in on his pedegri before and gave some opinions which i really appricated. I really like what i have seen from his kennel(s) and from some of the kennels in his ped.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2190983-ingwar-masada-vom-salztablick

 






 


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