DO NOT USE JOSE DIAZ!! Vomkirsys.com - Page 4

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Dog1

by Dog1 on 27 November 2015 - 15:11

There's enough information here to see exactly what happened. It's a simple case of expectations not being met and some efforts coming up short.

Hopefully some light will be shed on the situation and parties can move on with a little more information next time.

The problem starts with the breeding process itself. This female was nowhere near time to be bred at 4.0. Two days later and she still would not be ready to do an AI with fresh or frozen. There was absolutely no chance, zero, that the female would become pregnant. To understand this you simply need to know two very basic things. The breeding cycle and what the progesterone numbers mean. This information is available from Antec, the lab that does most of the testing on the East Coast or multiple internet sites. This female should have been AI'd once 5 days after she was 4.0 and 4.0 is not a good number to work from. You need to have a 5 to know where you are. Basically your best repro vet gave you bad information. Chilled and frozen sperm lasts hours not days. With frozen you are working with a 4 hour window. Also realize your vet (that doesn't know when to AI a female) may not have processed the semen and inseminated correctly. Even if they did, you still would have had zero chance. During the process the vet should have examined the quality of the semen prior to insemination. We don't even know if this was done but in this case it doesn't matter.

The seller is responding to the customer request to ship throughout this thread. Seller could have done a better job managing the process and making sure the vet was doing things by the book. Seller is on the hook for a repeat. It's in a stud dog owner's best interest to manage the process if they are going to warranty the result.

What you are faced with is a warranty where the consumer was negligent with the product. They bought a product with a warranty and used the product in such a way that the warranty would need to be exercised. Going back to the automobile example presented here. You bought the GM car and in the process received a warranty. Both parties have responsibilities in order for a warranty to be valid. The purchaser has to insure they comply with their side. They have to maintain the car. Maintenance, changing the oil, etc., are things the owner must do to meet warranty requirements.

In this example we see what amounts to the purchaser not changing the oil and brings the car back to the dealer with one quart of oil in a ruined engine and asking for a new car. Dealer's not going to give you a new car. You didn't uphold your responsibilities and ensure your semen was used properly.

Seller could have done a better job giving you an owner's manual and guiding you through the process. This level of service is necessary when you are dealing with the AI process but in the end it's your female and you're calling the shots. As a stud owner being involved in the process helps in 2 ways. 1) You can guide the process and ensure the process is being done correctly. If things are not being done correctly you have an opportunity fix a mistake before it happens. 2) If things don't work out you have a good idea why they didn't.

Both parties are right and both are wrong to varying degrees. Consumer has a warranty and he's entitled to something. Tuareg is not available as happens very frequently in the world of dogs. Dogs are sold, dogs go sterile, etc. It's not uncommon that the dog you want is no longer available for whatever reason. This is an unforeseeable part of breeding animals. Probably a good idea to update your website but not a factor here.

Customer states Kosmo is a 700 stud dog not an 800 stud dog. We're arguing over a hundred bucks at this point. Customer says the puppies will be worth half. I can tell you from experience you can get the same money for a Kosmo puppy as a Tuareg puppy so you're not convincing me on this one. You ability to sell is going to be more your marketing than your pedigree.

Asking for a full refund is not reasonable. Asking for 2 female puppies from Tuareg is not reasonable either. So far I have the customer in the unreasonable category. But the customer is still entitled to something. He was offered a 50% refund or repeat breeding with another dog. Both are very reasonable alternatives.

Where does this leave the situation? I think the customer has posted enough information to show he went into the process without the knowledge to ensure a positive outcome. Further, they did not understand how they contributed to their misfortune. They simply hired an expert and didn't get the result they wanted. There's enough information posted here for anyone to see the process wasn't going to work from the beginning. There's also been a lot said about the seller's business practices that are unfounded. I don't see a shred of evidence any type of scam is involved here.

I believe the customer is lucky if the seller doesn't file a suit on them for what has been posted here. I'll throw out a damage number too. Over 4,500 views about a scam. I'll bet at least 15 people see that and go elsewhere. There's 15,000 gone. That's a pretty easy number to sell to a jury. I'll bet some expert can push 60,000 easy and let the Jury decide from there. I'd say seller doesn't owe a dime at this point. You got your 800 in internet ass whipping. If the 400.00 offer is still on the table, take it, shake hands and part company friends. Come back here and let everyone know the two of you were able to resolve the matter to everyone's satisfaction.

jdiaz1791

by jdiaz1791 on 27 November 2015 - 19:11

Dog1, I get involved in every breeding and try to guide people, but at the end of the day, it's their money and they listen to their vet, because I don't want people then saying " she didn't take cause you sent it the wrong day ".... . I've gotten females pregnant from a 2 Ng/ml to a 30 , and have proof of it , so saying a 4 won't work is nonsense.....
But, AGAIN , the issue here is not the first breeding, is the guarantee breeding, where the male is not available and the one I offered he doesn't like, so ok, I offered to refund half of the stud fee, which was a discounted price to begin with.....Ive been doing stud service for about 20 years and only twice, counting this one , had I had a problem, because it comes from disingenuous people like this guy here....you didn't see one of his offers to me, to give him 2 puppies, mind you in another email he says will sue me for 6-8 puppies he should had gotten at $2,500 each.

Dog1

by Dog1 on 27 November 2015 - 20:11

I would like to see your proof of the 2 and 30 ng/ml success with frozen. You might get lucky with a fast rising female at 30 but show me something less than 5 when it took. 4 will not work, the female hasn't even ovulated yet. How do you inseminate a female with frozen sperm that lives 4 hours at least a day before she ovulates? The sperm is dead before the eggs are released much less mature.

rtdmmcintyre

by rtdmmcintyre on 28 November 2015 - 11:11

Dog1 I'm not going to claim your level of experience. Here in Tallahassee The vets send off the blood work to a lab and it could be a day or two later to get the results. I'm wondering if this is what happened when he was told 2 but actually that number could be two days old.

Dog1

by Dog1 on 28 November 2015 - 12:11

Owner says it was a 4 and vet said to AI at a 4 and again 2 days later. Clearly not the way it's done in the rest of the world. Frozen has a short life and you must wait until the female is timed perfectly and do it once. Suggesting multiple inseminations with frozen in the first place shows the vet is not up to speed on the process. This brings into question their handling and insemination process too.

by stoelzle on 28 November 2015 - 12:11

If this were me, I would have been spending my time before Saturday to arrange for a breeding for my female to another quality male. Plenty out there. You could have used Peik or another dog. Not going to be very soothing to you but sometimes things happen for a reason and we end up for the better. The fee was, in my opinion, not astro. the dog may no longer be owned by Diaz. Take the $400 and call it a day. If you can get the dog bred by this Saturday, do that. I know you are disapointed but this is truly not the worst to happen. It is most unfortunate that you have wasted this females time in heat to pose a fight .

Please, for you own well-being, drop the issue. If you could get your girl to anywhere to be bred tommorrow, I would do that. Take a jet plane. Drive someplace. Don't waste energy beating a dead horse. From my short experience, breeders take loses all the time. It's 400 bucks and you didn't get your dreams fufilled this time. I am not being partial to Mr. Diaz over you. I just hate to see you use so much negative energy trying to punish him. At this point, what good would it do and what difference does the discrepancy in his e-mail contracts make. Last year, i thought emails were considered legal tender. I found out the hard way that this is not true in every court or for every judge.

jdiaz1791

by jdiaz1791 on 28 November 2015 - 14:11

Stoelzle , he's just trying to force me to do what he wants, he hadn't even send me the payment, and he keeps saying I guarantee puppies; who guarantees puppies? How do you know the person breeding knows what he's doing, or raises the puppies right ? I guarantee the breeding, as standard practice.....He doesn't show the old emails where I asked him to please,let me know as soon as she starts bleeding to plan accordingly,save a tentative day/space for him....all he's done is threatening me, call me all sorts of names and for what ? Do you really think this is a guy that have the patience, dedication to raise,have a SAR dog,puppies ? He had even told me he was driving down with his female,because he didn't trust the AI...his whole thing here is to smear my name, that's all, and for that he will pay, and that's is a guarantee Brian....

by stoelzle on 28 November 2015 - 18:11

NowJose, you are a nice guy so lets not get you caught up in the energy that this guy is puting out. You will never know what is causing it. Afriend of mine once told me if you take seven steps to the left, you will never see or hear about the person who is causing you problems.
I know you don't recognize me by this call name but you were very kind and helpful to me when I was trying to get into the breeding scene. you looked at my xrays that were done on a young pup and encouraged me to hold out as the dog had been incorrectly positioned. You were kind in many ways but still a businessman whose business it is to sell puppies. Amen!

Now, 2 years later, I want to give you the best advice possible. Let it go. The less energy that you put to this situation, the better. The sooner you quit, the sooner people will totally forget this unfortunate (for both of you( incident.
I most recently found out that (in my particular experience) emails are more often than not...NOT considered legal tender in a court of law. So. all of that which was said in your emails would likely be considered a mute point in a court of law.

i recently bred a female..had the initial vet check of female to be certain she was in heat and get some idea of how far. Came back a week later and had the progesterone test done and got a 6,6 reading and a directive to drive the 6 hours to the breeder. We showed up the next morning and within 5 minutes they were locked. I left my female there and the breeder photographed two more locks and I had no questions it was a success, It cost me $800 plus fuel and sleeping in my Ford 2 days with my younger female. It was cold at night but otherwise we had a gas. I left with paperwork that guaranteed a second try if this one failed. It did not.

Given all the circumstances, I would send the guy a check or Cashier's check from your bank. Wait and see if he cashes it. Hopefully, he will come to his senses and get over his disapointment and accept the $400. And then your business with him is over, If not, balls in his court and you might have to walk through his upheavel. Hopefully not.
No one will think it reasonable that you would give him 2 pups or even two. It simply is not the nature of this business and is an unreasonable request.

He got some bad information. Likely, both of you (even you) will be more explicit in the future. That is how we learn.

jose, you take charge. Stop the hate cycle-not good for your health! Stop repeating the story. Stop defending.
As Bob Newhardt, in one of his most famous TV pschiatic sessions finally said to a patient, "Stop it. Just stop it!" Take a deep breath and a walk and swin in your pool. Play with your kids, Forget trying to defend your honor or prove who is right and who is wrong. This too shall pass. Fix a nice plate of Thanksgiving left overs and put something good on the TV.

Blessed Be.





 


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