Question - Page 1

For those of us who think dogs should be titled before breeding. Would you think it okay to breed a dog with AKC titles (Obedience, tracking, herding, etc). Just curious to see how everyone feels. Be honest and explain. Thanks

As an avid fan of schutzhund, I believe it is important to title a dog before breeding for many reasons. Here are a few of those reasons. First of all there are many "backyard" breeders that don't give much thought to the true characteristics of the GSD. What happens is that the breed as a whole suffers weather it is registered with the AKC or SV. There are of course many people that will pay a good price just to get a GSD without giving any thought to the many future problems that can arise such as hip displasia. Even the best bred dog can develop problems not to mention wheather it has what it takes to do any kind of work. Of course you know that as a herding dog, this means they must be able to work regardless of what they do. They are happier working. A good GSD is getting harder and harder to find. I believe the breed is very much worth preserving because I think they are one of the most versatile dogs around today. Anyone considering breeding, should give considerable thought to what they might produce and are they doing everything possible to preserve what we all love so much.

I have been a fan of Schutzhund since the early 80's and totally support the SV's requirements before breeding. I don't know why we have to have two Korungs, but that is another topic. The intelligence and ability to solve problems are preserved and passed down, through those stringent requirements, I think. I am curious and this is on a serious note, not ment to be sarcastic: just what is the definition of a "backyard" breeder. Is there a "dining room" or similar breeder? Just curious.

I bred my Ancil v Schmetterling and he has only his CD at this point. He is an exceptionally nice dog with great nerve and is loved by all that work him. He will ultimately be Schutzhund titled, but it may be a while as I'm a novice and we're playing around with AKC stuff in addition to the Schutzhund field. I'm planning for June for his BH/SchH 1 but may chicken out. He's a 'real' dog and it doesn't take a scorebook to prove that, however if he had not been worked by many top helpers, no one would know that he was more than just an AKC titled dog. As is stands, he's pretty well know regionally as a really nice dog with a limited handler. :o) Susie

this applies to what I responded on other column here There is somone here on the board doing what you say is horrendous she put a pup for 2500 on her website from untitled unrated parents of good bloodlines as she always breeds them but when she advertised same pup on here she drop price to 1500 but still nothing more than a pet pup she breeds every heat for the life of the females starting before they are 2 she has a male advertised that was supposed to be her new stud dog, made me wonder if he couldnt do the work. To me no matter how good the parants came from bloodwise these will never amount to anything more than mass producing pet puppies and false claims to what they are bilking folks of the price that would be had for real pups from titled parents to me even though the actual lines are good this too is puppy mill. Puppy mills dont have to be in a grungy worm infested feces stacked kennel to be what it is. If you are not improving the breed with a coupling be it titling or work or yes akc obedience or tracking or herding or sar whatever the dog does if that dog is a representative of what a German shepherd is and has proven itself and will be a vital continuance of the lines and you are not just breeding them to make money on puppy trade then I believe somtimes there are reasons they should be bred without paper traces of what they have accomplished but very very few of these deserve it compared to what is being bred. Not all good dogs of extreme worth are titled onto paper but it is wrong in my opinion to breed a kennel full of dogs for money and not ever giving back to the breed. I dont know if anyone understands what i am trying to say many times I have been misunderstood on here and attacked to the point i barely wish to respond it is my heartfelt opinions and doubtless will irritate others again.

I do like the SV breeding regulations as well. I do think that a dog should "prove" itself before being bred. As well as other German/foreign registrations do require that dogs be titled/hip certifed, etc. And not just German Shepherd Dogs. I just think that that breeding the U.S. in general is not regulated enough, if at all. Breeding should be done to improve the breed. Even the whole term "champion" is very deceiving in the whole of AKC conformation. For those that may not know this, but the German version of a herding title (HGH) is a working title. Equivalant (sp?) to a Schutzhund Title.

GSD Newbie....are you saying what this woman is doing is horrendous? I think I know who you are talking about...if so, I have spoken with her a long time ago and once again more recently...she now has another female pup and 2 other females (2 years old approx.) so now she can skip heats on her older females..her most recent litters mom had a litter 1 year ago.. As for the stud for sale, it's not her fault if he can't "do the work"...would you keep him? She does have good pedigrees on her dogs..and it makes it to where people who want pets can get a good dog hopefully free of HD etc..she did recently raise her prices, and she is going to title the younger pups... I do understand what you mean about giving back to the breed...I am in no way defending the "backyard breeder", but not all who breed for pets are "backyard breeders"...do you think? I am playing the devils advocate.. and NO I do NOT know this person and am not from her state...but there are far worse situations out there...I have been looking for a puppy for a long time and have ran into some terrible people out there...if you took the time to look up her pups on here then on her website, maybe you should call her and speak with her. It could be different than it appears...???? This should be good..........

Here's a couple of thoughts... 1) For people who take Schutzhund seriously, if you have a female you are thinking of titling, it costs a lot of money, as you all know. I think there is no problem with first seeing if the bitch produces well (if you are titling her because you plan to breed her) before spending a lot of money on titling. 2) This is to show that even people who title dogs, or purchase titled dogs, can be just as bad as those who breed untitled dogs. This breeder has titled dogs, but chooses to also breed untitled and UNREGISTERED dogs! I bought a pup out of a kennel that has titled and untitled dogs. The specific one I purchased came from two V-rated parents. I have never received registration, and the breeder told my attorney "I will never give her the AKC registration because of what she has done." What I did, for reference, is find out at the airport, that despite her telling me that the dog was AKC registered, that the pup was not. I also got a never before mentioned contract with limited registration only (I didn't do my "homework" well enough and paid $3500 for this PUP--GULLIBLE, YESSSSSS, but not anymore!) at the airport with the dog. I found out the dam was not yet AKC registered, and called the breeder on it. Long story short, she has done this over and over again, and continues to get away with it. Not this time. I have reported her to the Better Business Bureau in her area, filed a complaint with the Attorney General's Office in her area, filed fraud charges against her since she clearly intends to defraud me of my money, and lastly, will be going forward with a civil suit once the criminal case is resolved. SO, from someone who has BEEN gullible, take it from me and be very careful before you purchase anything. Ask the USA and other clubs in your area (and other areas, for that matter, especialy nearby where the kennel is) about the kennel you're thinking of buying from, they probably have heard if there's been a problem (or multiple problems as the case may be). Once the criminal case is completed, I will post my dog's name on here, as it has the breeder's kennel name attached to it. JMHO. :)

i will not debate you or even if we are speaking of the same person i just really dont care to go into a debate the person i am talking of has many many dogs on death row they bred and did not place responsibly I have no clue if its same person you "know" the person in question i did call to places and get info on and it all supported the theory also had email contact with questions with her and yes she doesnt have a clue about giving back to the breed. and if her male for sale cant breed shouldnt the potential buyers know this up front? ack! I dont know you the forum asked give your opinions i did i didnt give personal info connecting this person and have no clue about the other things you said may not even be same person you are talking about and yet again here I am being attacked for answering i only used the situation described as an example to better get accross my thoughts on this not as a crucification I give up i was only yet again trying to interact on the list i can not believe every time i get jumped when i have never intentionally or cruelly attacked the way i have seen and others only sit mutely watching that. this is what i responded to so only this persons opinion do i care to hear on this? Thanks