Pp dog in training - Page 3

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by ValK on 26 October 2020 - 22:10

bladeedge
"Valk if that dog bite u anywhere u would not strike him with anything he would imoblise you I guarantee you that"

really?
as you can see dog is big and strong and strength of his bite most likely no lesser than your dog, nothing to obstruct dog's teeth to reach man'e flesh and yet, no unconsciousness from pain shock.
you can't foresee circumstances and type of opponent your dog could face in fight. that dog in video very lucky one. if there was monkey wrench, hammer or something similar, dog for sure had ended that fight with cracked open scull and brain substance all over pavement.



by Hired Dog on 27 October 2020 - 04:10

On the other hand Valk, conversely, you could end up with 2 bullets to the chest and one in the head, if that happened here...You see, you love to exaggerate...there is no dog, or human, on the planet that can deal with being hit on the head with a hammer, hard, to the point that brains come out.
It does not matter how good the dog is, it does not matter how hard he bites or fights or whatever, if it gets hit on that head hard, it will die, end of.
I have always said that the dog is a great distraction, but, dogs do not always stop a person, a well placed shot on the CNS does and all the dog needs to do is give me enough time to get my finger off the trigger guard....

bladeedge

by bladeedge on 27 October 2020 - 05:10

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b9qzq2kwheg7dcj/Screenshot_20200927_163614_com.huawei.himovie.overseas.jpg?dl=0Valk.Mr hypothetical. For 1 the dog is the first line of defence of protection number 2 if my dog's in a fight with someone I won't be standing the praisein the dog I will be in the fight with the dog. My dog is always going to take the hand with the weapon. I always try to be respectfull here.😉 Every training scenario is just training but when you try to proof everything that you know can happen what more can you do until till it happens. I will say this and not lightly I would trust this dog or my other 2 dogs to protect my family with their life. What more can I ask of them. A for that I'm always grateful to have them as part of my family. And by the way guess what happens when you help your dog 😉


by Hired Dog on 27 October 2020 - 06:10

Blade, until one gets bitten by a good dog and I do mean BITTEN, not nipped or scratched, one has no idea what it feels like.
There are very few humans that can take on a dog that have the emotional or psychological capacity to deal with the pain that cannot be described in here.
Valk and I have discussed this before, I have no problems testing my dog, but, no suits, sleeves, muzzles or anything else, human against dog. He assured me that I would wait a lifetime before I could find someone willing to do that, I agreed...
I have said this many times and a lot of people argued with me when I did, but, the dog serves as a very painful distraction, he is not there to win the fight, it would be great if he does, but, that is not the reason he is there...he is there to allow me to get my gun and end it decisively.
I dont want to get too deep here, but, make sure that you can indeed jump into a fight with your dog still on the bad guy Blade, a lot of dogs have a hard time with that. Make sure that your dog does not and that he is clear headed enough to not confuse you with the suspect and end up biting you, if you decide to get into a wrestling match.

bladeedge

by bladeedge on 27 October 2020 - 07:10

Hired I know how that feels a proper bite I was bitten bad a couple of years ago and I'm not going to explain because unless it happens you don't understand . I always teach a scenario wher I fight with my dog's over and over like I do with every other training lesson. It amazing valk every ploice dog is training in a similar method as I use. never get a live bite in training are sent to the street with the confidence they can do ther job. and the majority do very well. The ploice put alot of faith into the training system they use and expect the dog to handle every threat in the way they wer trained to do so.iv read a lot of your post and you are (Mr what if) Imo . Tells me alot about your hands on handling and training. I train every suiation you can think weather it guns, fire extinguisher multiple bad guys. Ect my dog's will do their job.

by Hired Dog on 27 October 2020 - 08:10

Blade, there is no way to train for every imaginable situation, not without someone getting hurt eventually or you will create "trigger" issues with the dog.
You start with a good dog and you build it up to a level that you are comfortable with, both living with it and working with it and that is the best you can do.
Its an animal, it has limitations and those must be recognized or you risk very serious consequences, both with your safety as well as legally.
Again, any handler worth their salt will help the dog in some capacity if and when the dog in in a fight with a human and yes, I am also aware that in some circles, you are advised to run away as far as you can when your dog is keeping that assailant busy, but, those are not my circles. Have a great day and stay safe.

bladeedge

by bladeedge on 27 October 2020 - 09:10

That is correct hired. But with known and reading your dog you should know the limit. Time spent with your dog should tell you where he is. And if you are not Lis he will let you know.

GK1

by GK1 on 27 October 2020 - 10:10

bladeedge - your confidence and bond with your dog is admirable. I think you would agree the spiritual and mental is just as important as the physical. In my view more so.

But I would disagree with your thought at 0510 the “dog is the first line of defense of protection”. That’s your responsibiltiy. PPD is but one layer in a security system, and not a (potential) single point of failure. While you can reasonably depend on your dog to alert in many scenarios…only you can decide if, when violence is appropriate.

by joanro on 27 October 2020 - 11:10

Even though I have dogs that will bite an intruder when warrented, their primary job is to allert me of an intruder to give me time to get my g u n.

Koots

by Koots on 27 October 2020 - 11:10

Blade, here's a scenario that we did in police K9 training class (I was quarry, or bad person, and 'trainer'). It's very interesting how most dogs will react, and is a good one to train for, so that the handler does not get bitten if ever in this situation:

The dog is muzzled. Someone who can restrain your dog by collar holds him. You and another person are a little way away, 'talking', when you and the other person begin to tussle. The other person throws you to the ground and is pretending to pound you in a ground fight. The person restraining your dog releases dog. Now you see which person the dog will go for, hopefully it will be the other person. In many cases, and with all of the K9 candidates in training (not finished, about 1/2 way through course), the dog went for the person on the bottom (you). This is due to pack instinct to jointly attack the one on the ground being held down. As I said, I have done this scenario with the class dogs, and with my own Malinois (schutzhund, Ring, K9 trained), and my Mal was the only dog which attacked the person on top, hitting him full force and then doing muzzle attack. This is a very revealing test, and will tell you if your dog has that discrimination ability even when VERY stimulated. Just another scenario for training....






 


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