Are civil dogs often hardheaded and unsuitable for Law enforcement? - Page 7

Full and calm grips, or a dog that's driving into the helper is not just good for points. But I guess we'll always agree to disagree on that one and that's okay. It takes all kinds of different dogs and handlers. I prefer a different type of dog than most people here.


@Apple: yes, a lot of women are phenomenal handlers, specifically if they come out of horses.

I think the other issue is that IPO needs a pretty biddable dog in order to get the precision performance the judges are looking for. Is it an obedience sport in all phases. KNPV is not that interested in precision tracking or obedience in the same sense as IPO. So some lines strive to produce the hardest, toughest, most dominant Mal/DS'sdogs out there with really good nerves. You will not get the precision performance out of such dogs. They are not that interested in a toy and are very dominant, both working against the precision that is desired in IPO. And the social aggression is another issue. I am not referring to sharp/reactive dogs, but rather, dogs that want to bite you simply because you are not part of their pack. They are not being defensive or nervy. It is a trait becoming less common, especially in the GSD. There are other KNPV lines of Mals/DS's that are extreme in prey, love a toy, are super social and not defensive or aggressive or dominant at all.

 

Personal I don,t think it have to do with if you a man or a female, a quality dog trainer/handler
you are or you are not. Some peope will only train wit easy material and some people always
like to train with some more dificult harder dominant dogs than the more easy dogs will get higher points but the question is who is the better handler trainer.........I know who is te winner....

Give any malinois/GSD trainer a real hard bouvier or rottweiler and like to see who can certify/ title them and who have the PATIENT and skills

 

What people do not understand is that the GSD isn't just one or the other. He can be all of that. He can be a neutral dog and biddable yet still come out and scan the entire neighborhood to fuck someone up without being nervy or defensive. You can keep them in prey, yet they are still civil dogs when it comes down to it. You can have a dog that is hard as a rock, that you can hit with a 2x4 yet still with a super high packdrive and a high will to please, it just makes it more difficult to correct something because they quite literally don't give a shit about your correction.

That's the beauty about the GSD that people on here don't seem to appreciate.

You can have all that in one package. A dominant social, highly motivated and pack driven dog with a will to please thats also civil and hard as rock with full calm grips. A dog that can be handled by any Kid but can also make adults think twice about approaching.

@Apple: yes, a lot of women are phenomenal handlers, specifically if they come out of horses.

Two thumbs up on that!! Too many men rely on brute force in training - see it all the time! 

 

 

Personal I don,t like calm( pulling )grips like most GSD today I like real fight and pushing  grips with power
in a dog

 

 

But I think there are some old school KNPV handlers/breeders, who believe, like other sports, the sport and the breeds in them are being watered down. Pack drive is not so important to them, willingness to please, being social and safe around kids are not their priorities. And I think their reasoning is that genetics naturally tend to get diluted over time and they value these super hard, super tough old style dogs that are not as common anymore. They are definitely a potential liability and are not bred to be pets at all. The other school in Holland are people who want dogs that bite out of prey/active aggression/frustration aggression, are very social with great nerves and very high(possibly too high) pack drive. Black Malinois trains in KNPV and knows firsthand. Am I on track or completely off course?

A dog with full and calm grips isn't necessarily a puller. My dog is a natural pusher and will drive in on a suit but has calm grips on the sleeve. However, getting him to pull is a different story.

 

Sure oldschool KNPV handlers will selecting dogs different than most modern dog trainers today  they have there reasons

Ask Dick van Leeuwen or Gerben Kamphuis about this and there view of modern trainers dogs and handlers  and breeding  will be an eye catcher in Belgium from the ringsport there is Paul Sleeecx and Martine Loots another interesting persons
 

 

I think apple knows what He/ she is talking about. On this forum the working dog is typically seen through the lens of the "GSD people".