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by duke1965 on 07 March 2019 - 16:03

gustav, but most GSD today that have malinois type drive, also have malinois type nervesWink Smile


by apple on 07 March 2019 - 17:03

Valk,
To me the challenge is to have a dog that will bite for real, but that can be around people and that you can control. Aggression is fear based. With some aggressive dogs, their threshold for defensive aggression can be raised and they are controllable. Other dogs can have a higher threshold for defense genetically and still bite for real.
Duke,
I think you have to look at the individual dog. The group I train with has all non FCI KNPV line Mals except for me, and they have a lot of young dogs and pups and I haven't seen any nerve issues with any of them. I would say nerves is one of the major problems in the GSD, but that taking into account lines in addition to working lines.

by duke1965 on 07 March 2019 - 17:03

apple, KNPV dogs are mutts, technically speaking, not malis, why do you think the KNPV breeders mixed dogge and bull breeds to the malinois and why you think the policedogbreeders in central europe dont breed pure malinois

and again that stupid idea that agression is fear based, in the wild, animals need to have agression, to reproduce, to eat and to defend themselves, the assumption that agression is fear based is laughable


by ValK on 07 March 2019 - 17:03

duke
also noticeable trend toward malinoish very dry, skinny type in physical appearance of GS.

apple
you see, back in 70-80s among us never arose question "does that dog could bite for real".
criteria was more like "does that dog will go on offence or only could do in defense".
there weren't any doubt that all those dogs will be not hesitant to bite. question was about dog's willingness and stamina/stubbornness in doing it.
but again, that was specialized breeding program. i know - not all works in needs of this type of dogs and even more, due to social and technological changes it could be hard task to re-home the type of dogs, who in previous decades was use as watchdog. they obviously won't fit well into todays family pet category.

by apple on 07 March 2019 - 18:03

Duke,
I am well aware that non FCI Mals are X's due to being outcrossed to other breeds at times. To say they are mutts is the same attitude as talking about training a dog with cookies. Some of the best dogs out there are Mal X's. And of course defensive aggression is fear based. That does not mean the dog is a fear biter or doesn't display offensive aggression with defensive aggression. The catalyst for defensive aggression is always worry, which is basically a form of fear. If animals in the wild need defensive aggression to survive, then it is a life or death situation. So are you saying when an animal faces a life and death situation, fear isn't a major factor. That does mean fear is bad. It is actually necessary to stimulate different hormones and regions of the brain to enable an animal to fight. Maybe you think I'm saying dogs that show defensive aggression are weak because fear is involved. Defensive aggression is not a uniform construct. There are different degrees/types of defensive aggression and training is usually a factor. Some dogs are genetically hardwired to become violent toward a perceived threat without any training. These are the strongest defensive dogs. They have a very high threshold for flight. Some dogs are genetically hardwired to display defensive posturing when a threat is perceived and with training, learn to turn off that threat via biting, building their confidence and willingness to bite and raising their fear threshold. Some dogs are genetically hardwired to display defensive posturing like snarling, showing of teeth, hackling, deep bark at the drop of a hat and have a very low threshold for defense. Some dogs are sharp. Some are sharp shy and some are fear biters. But all defensive aggression stems from worry/fear.  The goal of training a dog in defense is to teach the dog to feel that defense is a positive and voluntary behavior. Defensive drive development and training teaches a dog to bring his defensive drive under control on his own, often through channeling back and forth from prey to defense.  Some dogs need more development of their defensive drive and some dogs need their defensive drive toned down so they can think and learn control.
Valk,
The Malinois, Mal X's, DS are meant to be smaller, finer boned dogs. There is a great deal of variation in different lines. In French lines, it is not uncommon to find 65 pound males. The Dutch Mal X's and DS's tend to be larger because Great Danes and Rottweilers have been outcrossed to in the past to increase size and other breeds have been outcrossed to for other traits. The result is hybrid vigor and inconsistent type.


by duke1965 on 07 March 2019 - 19:03

nice job of googling,and copying someones misunderstanding, but you are still way offShades Smile


by apple on 07 March 2019 - 19:03

Let's hear your point of view.

by duke1965 on 07 March 2019 - 19:03

no thanks, getting tired of yes, no games and repeating myself again and again,

by apple on 08 March 2019 - 11:03

Or is it that thinking is too mentally taxing to you?

mrdarcy (admin)

by mrdarcy on 08 March 2019 - 12:03

Apple, please keep it civil, let's just have one thread where personal insults don't come into it and ego's don't get bruised.





 


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