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German Shepherd Dog > OFA Online Search......an Amateur Question (25 replies)

by aceofspades on 08 May 2012 - 05:05

Posts: 447
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 03:57 am
So when I bought Ace and Janna I knew nothing about how the OFA worked.  I did not know that you could search their database and confirm hip scores yada yada yada.

I bought Ace with full registration.  My purchase agreement said I had to have his hips x-rayed before breeding, the usual stuff outlined in the contract.  I am sure that his mother and father were advertised as being "OFA'd".  I foolishly took their word for it.  Fortunately it looks like Ace will be fine, but I go to look up the parents hips tonight and neither are listed.

So my question is.......are ALL X-rayed dogs, without exception, listed on the OFA site?  I can't find ANY of the dogs owned by this breeder nor any of the offspring of the dogs owned by this breeder listed.  My dog came from their third litter and not one offspring is listed nor are the parents or the other two dogs they own.  In fact I can not find any of the dogs in Ace's mother's pedigree, and only a couple from his father's.

What will happen when i submit my films to OFA now?  What will be entered in the part where Ace's sire and dam are supposed to be listed?

Once again, I made a completely amateur mistake and did not confirm hip score (and did not know it was possible to) before buying a dog. 

I'm sure gathering up a booklet of things I know not to do (or know TO do) the next time I buy a dog.  Thankfully Janna's pedigree is complete with OFA on her mom's side.  Father is not listed but I suspect that is because he is German Import. 

by aceofspades on 08 May 2012 - 06:05

Posts: 447
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 03:57 am
And I looked over my contract with them. They offer a hip guarantee. Why would a breeder guarantee hips when they do not know the status of the hips Of their own breeding dogs? Is this because a guarantee can not be enforced anyway or because they know that almost no one will ever have their dogs hips xrayed? It appears that out of 6 litters total (2 before mine, mine and three after between 2 bitches) I am the only person who has followed through with my purchase agreement. Out of 50 some odd puppies (give or take).

by Hundmutter on 08 May 2012 - 07:05

Posts: 4392
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 08:43 pm
Well Ace I'd really need to see how it was worded, but personally I don't see how anyone can give a "guarantee" about the hip status their pups will turn out to be.  For example:  my last bitch was bred by someone who firmly believed in the value of using the KC/BVA HIP SCHEME properly;  she bred Vida, therefore,  from low-scoring parents, which themselves had good family hip histories going back generations.  Vee's litter siblings turned out fine, e.g  3:4=7,  5:5=10 etc.  Vida's
hips, on the other hand, were 29:31=60.  Her sire was listed as producing her, and one other 60 score, I believe;  but just about  everything else he ever produced, to my knowledge, was recorded as within the then Breed Mean.  The mother had had one litter where hips had not turned out to be a issue;  she then had a third litter where again there was one bitch pup who eventually had a very high score, and everyone else was ok as far as I know.  The breeder then stopped using her for breeding.  Vida never developed clinical problems of Hip Displasia,  she lived to 14 by which time she was a bit arthritic.
The half sister developed arthritis earlier, around 7 if memory serves, but then her score was higher and she had a different lifestyle.  So I would love to see anyone with a crystal ball give "guarantees" on a turnout like that !  Dr Willis said of Vida:
"well, these things sometimes happen".  

by Rik on 08 May 2012 - 11:05

Posts: 2197
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2008 03:41 am
In the U.S., most guarantees are for the replacement of the puppy if hips are bad.

In reality, from a lot of breeders, the guarantee is the only thing they will ever give, getting the replacement can be very diffulcult and costly.

by Blitzen on 08 May 2012 - 12:05

Posts: 12477
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2004 06:49 am

Many, many names on the OFA database are misspelled and/or the  OFA numbers are transposed. If you can't find the dog you are searching for using their their full name, try a part of the name that is unique if you can. For example - Kismet's Site for Sore Eyes, can't find it? Seach using sore eyes.

When I bred, my show/breeding guarantee said the dog would eligible for an OFA certification of fair, good, or excellent at 24 months of age. That expired if the dog was not xrayed by the time it reached 28 months. If the dog didn't clear, I asked  to first see a copy of the xryay and then proof that the dog was neutered or returned. Then it would be replaced or refunded upon as agreed upon by all involved parties. Not GSD's another large working breed where every breeder I knew who didn't honor a contract was outted and in for a lot of problems. Maybe GSD breeders need to expect more from their peers?

 

by workingdogz on 08 May 2012 - 12:05

Posts: 964
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:42 pm
Slightly off topic, but Rik nailed it!

Most breeders will offer a guarantee to make
the purchaser feel 'warm and fuzzy'. Some will
then turn around and try to place blame on the
buyer if things go south! Ignoring the very obvious.

Guarantees will generally state 'against crippling
hip dysplasia', that means Fido needs to be dragging
around. If Fido OFA's mild, as long as he's still up
and walking, you have nothing

Some breeders are no longer breeding by the time
you may need your guarantee honored, they may be
out of dogs completely! Be sure you contract places 
a reasonable time frame in which you can expect to
be compensated (and in which form you will recieve
such).  Otherwise, that 'great' breeder will usually come up
with all kinds of excuses to avoid a puppy or $$ back

Or, just do what we do, buy with the expectation we are
willing to gamble on a puppy from titled/koered proven
parents. Of course, we don't pay $1500+ for these puppies
either, we import our pups, they are ours free and clear.
No limited registration, no false sense of warm & fuzzy
from a contract that in all liklihood won't be honored.

Blitzen is right too, instead of circling the wagons, if
breeders in this country and charging top dollar and
bragging about buy-back policies, guarantees etc,
they need to bust out the check book when there is
a problem, not tell a buyer they need to 'wait', I'm
betting most sellers don't 'wait' for their $$ for the pup.
It's a double edged sword, buyers need to educate themselves,
and NOT try to hold a breeder responsible for their lack
of education. But breeders need to be straight to the point
too, no song and dance crap.



by laura271 on 08 May 2012 - 12:05

Posts: 820
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 07:13 pm
Any chance that your dog's parents had their hips / elbows scored in Canada at the OVC? Folks here sometimes say OFA'd even though they used the OVC.

by AmbiiGSD on 08 May 2012 - 12:05

Posts: 647
Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 11:11 pm
Why people guarantee something that they have no control over, boggles my brain.

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