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by Bavarian Wagon on 27 August 2016 - 16:08

Hund...the KC sounds a lot like the GSDCA and the AKC. The majority has focused on conformation championships and the basic all-breed obedience titles. From the outside it looks like England has been at least able to keep the WGSL type a bit more than the Americans have. Not sure about the dogs themselves, but they at least look like their WGSL cousins. The proximity to Germany no doubt has helped this by keeping the cost of importing males and females down and therefore the type has stayed similar. I've seen that many of the old English colonies have also kept the WGSL type and in general when you see the dogs working the people are just happy with the dogs doing a minimum level of anything. Mostly this is because they haven't seen anything better and believe that the work they're seeing from the lines they've been breeding or importing is top level.

It is also difficult in the United States to break through and show people the value of IPO titles and doing things the SV way. The truth is, way too easy to sell puppies without doing anything and just knowing the right words to say to sell a puppy to a customer. Since the majority in the United States is also mostly show lines...the natural higher drive and working ability of a decently bred working line is enough to sell most people on the fact that these are working dogs. Don't even get me started on the "straight back/no angulation" sales pitch...that makes it even easier to sell to people who just want something that doesn't look like the typical showline.

Watch a few videos of dogs from eastern Asia and the islands around Australia...you'll understand why it's hard to take any kind of experience from that part of the country as comparable to what people have in Central Europe and the United States. It's just a different understanding of what the GSD should be.

Les The Kiwi Pauling

by Les The Kiwi Pauling on 30 August 2016 - 07:08

The damned CKEditor wont even save a single reply at the moment - it keeps switching to the stupid 404 message each time I try to save my text. As there is no [Cancel] or [Delete] button, I'll try to post this then make a cuppa and see if anything more co-operative has turned up....


Les The Kiwi Pauling

by Les The Kiwi Pauling on 30 August 2016 - 11:08

[Bavarian Wagon] 26.8.2016 - 13:08
"Les again listed the last accomplishment in the ring in 1997...almost 20 years ago. So now that makes someone an expert on where the GSD is today?"
Accomplishment? Getting 3 litter-mates BS.Classified while the 4th was busy doing security work? Not MY attitude to it! It was my EXPECTATION - I expect all my "products" to reach at least the minimum requirements for a good pet with the potential to perform the breed's other tasks if given the needed training. I'm not infallible, but I ATTEMPT to consistently achieve what you call an "
accomplishment".

No-one - except YOU - is suggesting that being a ring handler gives a person the OPPORTUNITY to observe what the rest of the class look like and gait like. Being OUTSIDE the ring in a strategic position lets me SEE things that the judges either don't notice
(or choose to overlook).
And in case you haven't managed to notice, judges don't look for what best fits the STANDARD - they look for what best fits the FASHION. But you - being such an expert in your own mind - don't NEED to take notice of what the BREED looks like, what The KC (UK) is demanding, what the SV is now demanding, and what FCI#166 requires.... Knowing what the JUDGES seek is enough for you.
Which is why our breed is in such a mess in so many parts of the world. And where "professional" judges and "professional" handlers are used, the worse that the "professional" breeders produce and the more exaggerated that the "professional" handlers "stack" them as. To hell with the breed, eh! - what counts is getting PAID judging appointments, getting PAID handling contracts, getting the magic title "Ch." and maybe even the qualification "ROM" so that like-minded people will PAY even higher prices for their exaggerated offspring!

As my last litter was in late 2000, and the pup whose features were nearest to what I wanted was delightfully a "mere" 54-to-55cm in an era when judges & surveyors were looking for 60-61cm bitches, naturally I declined to waste time & money showing & surveying her. To make it worse, she developed a closed pyometritis before I was ready to have her mated, so it wasn't until her death that I had room for a replacement. And that replacement appears to have decided that she had had all the heats she wants by the time she was 33 months old, so it looks as though I am going to have to again find a puppy likely to produce what I want within what FCI#166 stipulates.
Professional handlers are not allowed in our rings - thank goodness! And being one-legged as of 1 June 2015 I won't be handling in any ring, so my future stock won't be shown unless a buyer or still-fit friend is willing to do so.

BTW - have you noticed how long ago it was that the world's most successful coaches last personally competed in their sports?

"the breed is where it is today and truthfully, show handlers, judges, and breeders are the ones that took it to this place."
Hoo boy is THAT true!
But
(except in YOUR circles, it seems) many people are now demanding that the exaggerations be penalised and that we get back to GSDs that actually FIT what GSDs are supposed to be re attitude, character, determination, endurance, gait, health, instincts, shape, size, etc.
Even bureaucrats DO eventually realise that VOLUNTARY schemes don't succeed - there has to be a highly desirable "
carrot" backed up by an unavoidable "stick". LRLs (Litter Registration Limits) as operated by the SV amd the ANKC (and now by NZKC, but for Labradors only so far) achieve that to a large degree. Voluntary participation in schemes and "open slather" registration requirements such as used by the AKC etc (just 2 dates, 2 signatures giving the details of AKC-registered alleged parents, number of dogs, number of bitches, and the Notification fee) fail.


"Meat processing? Reading a dictionary? Acting in a play? What does any of that have to do with German Shepherds?"
Apart from the food supply for the pooches? Just a wider life experience and better mental balance than narrow-minded fanatics can be bothered developing.
 

"
I'm not sure why people in smaller countries take so much offense to the fact that their experience and over all affect on the GSD breed is extremely limited."
The size of the nation has nothing to do with it - what matters is the size of the minds it develops.
As an example, had it not been for Kiwi Keith Park masterminding the remnants of the RAF during the Battle of Britain, Britain would not have lasted long enough for the Japanese to force the USA to stop profiteering by supplying munitions to both sides and send some of its troops to the European front
(troops so "green" that Sir Winston Churchill wanted to keep them away from the front lines for a year to give them time to actually LEARN a bit about what happens in war). Had it not been for Kiwi Ernest Rutherford, the USA would not have had atomic bombs to drop on Japan. Had it not been for Kiwi William Pickering heading JPL, it is possible that the USA would not yet have set foot on the Moon.

"I can't imagine NZ has enough genetic diversity within the breed there to do anything but bottleneck and create a type far from what the major players in the game are doing."
I'm not responsible for your limited imagination.
You overlook that:
#
1: What the "
the major players" such as the Yanks and Germans have been doing is CONTRARY to the ideals of the GSD breed. Indeed, as far as I can make out, dog-shows have been deleterious to EVERY breed that was developed to perform any kind of function aka "work", and thus there have developed at least TWO "types" in every such breed - a "show-is-all" type or types, and a "function-is-all" type or types that CAN still perform at least ONE of the guarding or hauling or herding or hunting or retrieving or scenting or tunnelling tasks of the breed.
#
2: Those who CARE about the breed
(rather than just winning in show rings or sport rings) can and DO import semen from anywhere except Germany.
Whether the sires or other non-Kiwi parts of these 3 pedigrees SUITS you is not the issue. The pedigrees are from just ONE Kiwi Kennel. The breeder happens to be older than me, and sold us our first registered GSD back in 1967:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2272667-orion-vom-volkerson   Cobra has 3 litters in NZ.
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2275428-nino-vom-volkerson   Nino has 4 litters in NZ.
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2019490-desni-vom-volkerson   Omen has only 1 litter in NZ.
"Mrs Volkerson" & her daughter are NOT good at putting data into the right fields, but that trio will serve to demonstrate that no NZ kennel HAS to be "bottle-necked" except the bottle-necks in Germany, such as Palme v.Wildsteiger Land.

You prefer NZ breeders who focus on sales to the police and/or to paranoids craving "protection" or to addicts of DogSport? Try

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/search.html?q=von+zorcha
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/search.html?q=wyndova

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/search.html?q=heisenberg

We CAN access bloodlines, except those individuals that remain in Germany.
The nearest we've had to a bottleneck was

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=415853-dunmonaidh-junker
who was our most-used stud. Germans who judged him commonly stated "Ah - a Quanto son!" He went 3 years unbeaten by any male in Australia and NZ, after which his son went unbeaten in NZ for just a bit less than 3 years. Junker sired 13 NZ.Chs, 3 Ob.Chs, 1 WT.Ch. (who went all the way through CDX-UDX-WDX-TDX), 1 CDX-UDX, 6 CDX. My records list 278 of his children that reached the specialist ring, with 45 of them gaining Excellent show-gradings. No dog is perfect, but the main problem he passed on was the weak pasterns from Quanto vd.Wienerau (as mentioned in his Breed Survey Report there by Dr Wolf Simon). He also has an enduring influence in Australia where his "reward" for winning  each GSD National was to mate whatever bitches were in-season before his owner took him back to NZ (his owner lived in a small city where the airstrip was grass and so planes bigger than DC3s were not routed to land there - and the cargo hatch on a DC3 was not designed for GSD crates).

 ● "
By the way...if you think knowing more than some "pro" in Singapore is going to impress anyone"

No way did I imply that I knew more than anyone else (except possibly you...) about GSDs worldwide - just the FACT that I was able to identify 3 pups I'd produced (in litters intended for specialist shows) that nevertheless had "what it takes" to be "protection" dogs.

Edited by GSDHeritage Admin

 


Les The Kiwi Pauling

by Les The Kiwi Pauling on 30 August 2016 - 11:08

My previous post and this one (and the ones that will follow as fast as I can get them formatted) are at least a day late, thanks to problems with my keyboard and the pdb.

[susie] 26.8.2016 - 18:08

"What is a BS.Cl.1 or BS.Cl.2 ?

     I guess


     "BS" = breed survey
     "Cl" = Körklasse
"
 I had "always" thought that "
klasse" was the Deutsche for "Class" and "Körung" was the Deutsche for "Breed Survey", so had assumed that "Körklasse" = "Breed Survey Class". But Google couldn't translate "Kör" for me, so I had to do some playing around. Perish the thought of finding my recommended-but-falling-apart German:English dictionary or the "nearly new" but inadequate one

"
but what are the requirements for a BS in your country?"
Except for the AD + HGH/IPOI/SchH character qualification, VERY similar to Germany's:
#
1: An NZKC-registered GSD.
#
2: A NZ breed surveyor - although our rules allow for a German körmeister to be used once per annum if the club who invited him/her requests it before any other club asks for THEIR körmeister-judge to be allowed to hold a survey. But the cost of flying northern hemisphere judges to NZ is so high for a club that few do for the low entries that result. For example, in 2015, the South Island GS League held a double show with Erich Bösl
(SV Ger) and Mike Bradley (SV NZ) taking a sex each in the first day's show, then swapping for the second day's show. That show attracted 142 entries, of which 113 and 122 competed, depending on which judge had the bitches that day. Frank Goldlust (SV Ger - breeder of Ingo Frankengold, a source of GSDs beloved by show is all-people despite that he and his stock rarely average more than 3 pups per litter) judged our GSD National (for which our 7 district aka "LandesGruppen" clubs are levied to help the host club meet expenses) and attracted 148 entries, of which 119 competed. As you can see, each entry's share of at least NZ$8100/€5200 air-fare plus hosting costs is going to be rather large! Goe are the days when just the class I was in had over 40 exhibits...  :-(
#3: Having acceptable hip & elbow certificates
#
4: The owner being a member of the GSDAC and having correctly filled in the application form  
http://www.nzgsdac.org.nz/GSDAC%20Application%20for%20Breed%20Survey.pdf   plus supplied the required documentation and fee.
#
5: Matching the surveyor/körmeister's opinion as to whether, overall, the GSD is "Well above average" (BS.Cl.1) in the way it matches FCI#166, or merely "Above average" (BS.Cl.2).
There is MUCH about our surveys that is NOT on-line, but what is on-line is at  
http://www.nzgsdac.org.nz/breedsurveys.html

"We are not talking about Latin, we are talking about an internationally used, living language - and we are talking right now on an International DOG board, used by dog sport and pedigree enthusiasts."
"
board" is one of the words I HATE. I had to ask my ex-DDR friend
(who, as official translator between the SV and the ANKC-etc, has the Deutsche copy of the letter from Herr Quoll), to check which of its several possible meanings best applied to whatever Deutsche word HE had used (it turned out to be a floor-board rather than a bulletin-board or a board of directors).

Edited by GSD Heritage Admin

 


Les The Kiwi Pauling

by Les The Kiwi Pauling on 30 August 2016 - 12:08

Bugger - that afternoon those two key-presses were misbehaving again.
However, a second pop-off of the [
Alt] key revealed a line of tight fluff INSIDE the key that I hadn't noticed while tiredly cleaning its base-socket in the wee-hours of Monday
 

 

[Bavarian Wagon] 26.8.2016 - 18:08

"Sorry hund, when you're more worried about what to call the letters in front or behind a dog's name and when you're more worried about telling random strangers about how one of your "ancestors" was nominated for an award at some point that has nothing to do with German Shepherds on a topic discussing dogs...your experience loses value really fast."
Trust YOU to totally misinterpret what was REALLY going on.
Having had a pupil with an IQ of 60 on his best days, I don't despise ignorance. But I DO despise people, who won't even attempt to improve their awareness, knowledge, understanding.


"And sure, if you just stopped 5 years ago you might still have some insight into today's breed. But 20? You're 10 generations removed from what's out there today..."
REALLY? So YOU are one of those puppy millers who pump out so many litters that a generation is a mere 2 years, are you?

SOME of us can learn from observing OTHER PEOPLE's mistakes without having to repeat those mistakes ourselves.
BTW - I sure HOPE that I haven't "
stopped 5 years ago" - I hope to live long enough to produce a few more generations.

Obviously you consider that the announcements made by The KC and the SV mid-2016 are
wrong, and that the fanciers of AlsatiOns, Banana-Backs, German Crouchers, Hinge-Backs, NAmerican Ski-Slope Dogs, Prick-Eared Bassets, Teeth-on-Feet, Titanic Tail-Tuckers and Just-Plain-Craps are the ones who know - and are PRODUCING - what a GSD should look and behave like. Whereas I DON'T consider them "right".
Out of curiosity:
Please link us to a pdb photo-pedigree page that contains what you consider to be a "current generation" worthy GSD. And inform us whether he/she is one that carries your kennel name.


"I value people's input...but sorry...you lose any and all credibility when you start lecturing people on what to call a couple of letters rather than trying to achieve them."
You ARE consistent. It isn't the "
couple of letters" that I entered this thread for - it is the LABELLING aka CATEGORISING of what those letters stand for. Sad to say, although MOST GSD owners around the world CAN understand Oli's instructions and the difference between a TITLE (whether human or canine) and a QUALIFICATION (again whether canine or human), a HUGE proportion of "English"-speaking DogSport folk cannot.
 


Right - I have now taken my keyboard apart and done a MASSIVE keyboard clean, and am HOPING that the keys will now perform properly for a couple of years.


[Bavarian Wagon] 26.8.2016 - 18:08
"
Here is the New Zealand breed survey for those interested...
http://www.nzgsdac.org.nz/breedsurveys.html

Yeah...no "qualification" requirement and not even a protection portion during the breed survey."
Dead right - except for what is NOT on that page.
Unlike you, who keeps wagon... er.... WAGGING her fingers on the keyboard, I have to do things like sleep, go to the physiotherapist - that visit took 2 hours out of my life - attend to my e-groups, attend to GSDAC business, and so on. And as of the physiotherapy I am supposed to keep a strip of silicon covering the lumpy scars on my last-operated-on hand - but the damned thing keeps wanting to peel off and stick to ANYTHING that my left hand brushes against
(have you noticed that the keys that get pressed most are on the LEFT side of the keyboard?).
Plus, as you will see in various parts of what I have stored on my computer ready for when I catch up with what has been posted in this thread while I've been cursing the keyboard and doing various other things. the keyboard in particular has been a major problem. And along the way it deleted the stored web-address for this thread - and then the Thread-Search tool couldn't find the thread
(it doesn't have an EXACT-search function - care to guess how many threads have the word "
title" somewhere in them?) And as the result is then sorted to show at the top the messages that contain the most uses of the search-seed word, I would have had to keep going until I got to almost the very last one. My arthritic hands had tired before I found this thread. And so I had to do some learning to discover another way to find this thread. The first attempt was rejected - the search tool complaining that I had used "illegal" characters! (But every character was typewriter letter used in one of YOUR sentences that I had saved on my own computer.) However, my second attempt worked.

 

"it's the removal of important information like the fact that the requirements for the NZ breed survey in no way compare with the requirements for an SV or USCA breed survey and yet he offers the fact that he has attained those breed surveys without making note of the fact that there isn't the titling requirement and that the dogs aren't tested in any way except for a glorified temperament test for a pet dog."
Geez you're determined to misinterpret and misword and skew and get things WRONG!

BTW - if a GSD isn't fit to be a "pet dog" it is NOT fit to be a GSD.


#1: There was no "removal" - I simply hadn't had time to post my PREPARED answer to [susie]'s perfectly civil request.
#
2: The SV doesn't HAVE "breed surveys" - it has körungen. As far as I recall, so does the USCA. And although your thinking isn't accurate enough to accept that different words have different meanings, they definitely DO. Synonyms are NOT the same as one another! If you can't tell a breed survey from a körung, you probably also can't tell a car from a limousine or an F1 racer, can't tell a sun-shower from a monsoon. I KNOW you cannot yet tell a TITLE from a QUALIFICATION! Maybe your ability to differentiate ceases with the difference between a man and a woman?

 

"Les is correct that the judges were wrong in passing his dogs in breed surveys and koers...the dogs shouldn't have even been allowed to enter due to their lack of working title, AD, and show rating."
No they WEREN'T wrong the way YOU claim - and that's NOT what I wrote. I wrote that they were probably wrong in their CLASSIFICATION decision - Cl.1 vs Cl.2.
Otherwise they were RIGHT - something you would LIKE to be but are consistently NOT being. See, when one rides a bike, one obeys the rules for cyclists - or else! When one enters a movie theatre, one obeys the rules for audiences - or one gets ejected. If one enters or judges a Breed Survey, one obeys the rules for BREED SURVEYS. The surveyors DID, whether Kiwi or German. Had they considered that the lack of an AD or SchH prevented them from assessing the dog's character they could have said so after reading the printed requirements before leaving Germany.
The GSDAC does have an ED qualification
(AusDauer prüfung translated into English) but I can't remember when anyone last bothered - a big problem was that one of the entrants in an early event died as a result of the course, whereupon a requirement was made that the entrant get a veterinary clearance during the week before the course was to be trotted. The GSDCAu translation gives them the ET for the identical test.


Les The Kiwi Pauling

by Les The Kiwi Pauling on 30 August 2016 - 13:08

[Bavarian Wagon] 26.8.2016 - 21:08

"I'm (snip) just pointing out to the rest of the readers how the information provided by those breed enthusiasts isn't what it seems. In the United States"
I shifted those last 4 words deliberately, because you DO mean "
what it seems in the United States".
Were you more aware, you would realise that MUCH of what happens - including the meanings of English words - is "
not what it seems in the United States". Those who WANT things to be the way they are in the USA either live there or are trying to migrate there. The rest of us prefer things "our way".

"
although the GSDCA is a WUSV member, they don't call their championships breed surverys or koers. They have temperament tests which they call just that...temperament tests."
I wonder which GSDCA you are referring to. and whether you are even aware of the superior GSDCA.


"
They aren't purposely using language which make others believe their test is something that it isn't."
GEEZ you are ridiculous. Neither the superior GSDCA nor the GSDAC call our breed surveys anything other than breed surveys. They and we DON'T call it a körung, we don't award a KKl - although some owners of surveyed GSDs in the pdb do when Oli uses filters that allow ONLY the Deutsche abbreviation.

As for "
using language which make others believe their test is something that it isn't" - how about your persistent misuse of "titles" for qualifications, of "championships" as though you thought the Ch. title
(which, apart from the Int.Ch. title that is the property of the FCI, is the property of each nation's official kennel club, as the GSD League of Britain recently found out to their cost), has anything to do with surveys, and "surverys" instead of "surveys"?

"
I can also definitely call out members of the forum who try to make themselves sound smarter than they are by listing off accomplishments that don't mean nearly what they do in the rest of the world."
You CAN - and you DO even though each time you betray YOUR ignorance, not other people's. Your little hidey hole is NOT "
the world".

People who actually want to LEARN about what applies in "
the rest of the world" take the trouble and time to locate appropriate people in the parts of the world they are interested in. As I am interested in the Swedish temperament tests
(when I get TIME, damnit!) I have made contact with a judge & an historian in Norway, and a non-GSD competitor in Sweden. As I am interested in GSD herding I have made contact with the Yank who continues the world's most successful HGH line, Stammherder Ramholz. And so on.

"
When a member decides to also back up the claim that they know something about protection work because they've once out witted someone in another country which doesn't have a very strong history of dog training about protection work..."
Doesn't EVERYONE "know something about protection work"? I've never made any claim to be an EXPERT on it. I have mentioned that my first trainer went on to become the head of NZ's Trentham Police Dog School & Kennels
(and I mentioned his flaw); that my 1968 city's security guard insisted that I "put the sleeve on" (and I mentioned his flaw); mentioned that the only member of my CC-litter that didn't present for BS.classification had saved a cop, that my home-bred Herrscher made a huge effort to bite an intruder (but calmly accepted my authority when I let the man in), and my home-breds Ciwa, Cippa, Nadja, Offa bit people that they regarded as intruders or runaways, but released immediately. The "protection" was instinct produced by thoughtful breeding, not by training; the immediate release was partly breeding, partly training. There are many other things that I haven't mentioned, including that the pro trainer wanted 4 dogs, not just 3, so accepted a friend's pup as #4 - and was NOT happy with that one.

"
The ratings, koers, and breed surveys received in NZ are CLEARLY not equal to what Germany or the United States does"
Really? Such pseudo-experience & pseudo-expertise you claim!
"
ratings": Many NZ-bred dogs have been graded Excellent by German SV judges, some of whom have stated that the top 4 or 5
(especially bitches) would win in Germany. A German member of the German Embassy in Wellington bought a local GSD who, like the 2 pups I'd sent to Singapore was by http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=547778-tandina-superbrat , showed him at our local club's shows with adequate results, took him back to Germany, and reported that he had been graded V.
"
koers": What are they? We don't have any such thing, and Google can translate none of "koers", "köer" nor "kör". It must be something DIFFERENT from the
"breed surveys": As far as I know neither nation calls anything they do a "breed survey". Do TRY to get your language right. I repeat: There are very good reasons for why different things have different names.

BTW - one does not "
receive" a "breed survey".

"
yet the person still wants to fight about how they have more knowledge about the breed"
Note that a "
person" is NOT a "they".
And it wasn't ME who "
wants to fight" - I presented knowledge about the word "title" and didn't expect to be called back to this thread - but you got your knickers in knots kicking up dust about all sorts of other things that you ALSO are not competent to name.

"
those of us in countries which abide by SV rules and have much higher standards for those "titles.""
So you are not in  the USA any more. Because NO WAY does the USA "
abide by SV rules" for litter registration, NO WAY does the GSDCAmerica "abide by SV rules" about displaying the approved Standard of the SV, WUSV, VDH and FCI. Sheesh! The GSDCAmerica went so far as to remove the word GERMAN from our breed's name in 1917 and call itself The Shepherd Dog Club of America until 1931! And unless you admire such as NAmerican Ski-Slope Dogs, NO WAY does what won USA titles such as US.Ch. and US.GV. from about 1955 onwards represent what GSDs are.


Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 30 August 2016 - 16:08

Uh, going back a paragraph or fifteen of Les's, Bav, I can support what he says about what you see of other peoples' entries when you are Show handling - certainly in even the most genteel of European rings, handlers are kept far too busy standing and moving the dog they have on the end of their own leash to pay much attention to what other people are parading ! And if not ... they ain't handling properly.
Its a dead cert you can assess much more from Ringside. Even when handlers are standing to one side of the Ring while other dogs Individual exams are being done by the judge, the handler should have most of his or her attention on the one in their own charge, else most Breeder/Exhibitors will certainly demand "Why ?".

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 30 August 2016 - 16:08

Les even if you found your German/English dictionary it would not help with translating "Kör" directly ... my 3 don't. I have a feeling this was one of those occasions when something which sounded roughly right for what they were trying to express became "technical" language for dog breeders; the Germans are far from alone in doing that trick !


susie

by susie on 30 August 2016 - 17:08

Les the Kiwi Pauling:

"Nein nein - ich nicht sprechen sie Deutsche, mein frau! (Actually, I should probably have used a capital for Frau, but I've not attempted to learn Deutsche punctuation rules.)"

You want me to count your mistakes? Just stay away from the German language...

" Nein, ich spreche kein Deutsch, meine Dame! " ....without further comment, YOU are the teacher

 

Les the whatever:

"BTW - if a GSD isn't fit to be a "pet dog" it is NOT fit to be a GSD."

On the other hand most pet dogs are NOT fit to be a GSD, ever thought about this statement?

 

Bav said: ● "I'm not sure why it's difficult for you to just write like the rest of the people on this forum"
Your answer: " Possibly it has something to do with my parents & grandparents valuing education more than did the parents & grandparents of "
the rest of the people on this forum"?"

 

At this point you are out for me, sorry. Go on giving your "English lessons" on this board ( you hate this word ? ), but stop to insult people. You are not better than anybody else on this board, you think you are better educated? You are more intelligent? Not in case of working dog breeds, you simply have been a teacher for Maths and English, not more, not less.

You are not able to use a modern editor? You are not able to acknowledge different definitions within one language, different meanings for one word? You don´t know ( or better, accept ) the commonly used terms within international dog sport?


At least for me that´s your personal problem, your personal fault, not the fault of the rest of the world.

A lot of very good ( better, outstanding ) trainers and breeders of German Shepherd Dogs are no "well educated" people, but they know more about working dogs than a lot of academically well educated people will ever know.

Breeding, training, titling working dogs is not about spelling, not about grammar - it´s about feeling, and knowing out of experience and doing.

Life goes on, it didn´t end in the eighties, and it really doesn´t matter if you like it or not.

 

 

 

 

 


Koots

by Koots on 30 August 2016 - 18:08

Les - I responded to your posts in chronological order. Therefore the only post of yours that I have read in its entirety is on page 1.





 


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