4 April 20 LE K9 bite - Page 2

Pedigree Database


by GK1 on 10 April 2020 - 09:04


reliable out on a tug toy during sterile training session vs reliable out in high stress, chaotic street fight…difference in the dog's state of mind?

by ZweiGSD on 10 April 2020 - 09:04

A technique all K-9 handlers should know:  outing a dog with handcuffs.

Be sure to read his comments under the video.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG8TpaptiD4


by GK1 on 10 April 2020 - 11:04

a wooden or plastic break stick has less potential to injure the dogs mouth, damage teeth..or be used as a weapon by an un-cuffed suspect.

by Rik on 10 April 2020 - 11:04

it is certainly very interesting to see what is being "taught" about American LE in other countries.

I doubt there are many other countries in the world (other than those run by drug cartels or terrorists) where LE literally puts their life on the line like in the U.S.

I can see this thread going south in a hurry.



by Koots on 10 April 2020 - 13:04

Rik - I hope this thread does not 'go south', but remains a civil, respectful discussion of 'use of force' with a K9.

I am not sure if the USA has federal policing standards regarding use of Police Dog, or rather each State has their own standards.    I could not find any federal standards for Canada, but did find the Provincial Standards for BC.

The BC (Canada) Provincial Policing Standards Use of Force section, which lists the use of Police Service Dog (Sect. 1.4): 


Here is the Police Service Dog Performance Testing and Maintenance Standards:


(1) Ensure that every police dog in use by the police force is tested in accordance with the following schedule:

       (a) Prior to a dog entering service; and

      (b) Annually thereafter. 


(7) Bite under pressure and ‘out’: The dog is sent off lead to bite a person who is holding a weapon (minimum 20 metres away), and is behaving aggressively. The dog must, without hesitation, bite the person. The person then fights aggressively with the dog including using stick threats. The dog must confidently maintain its grip. After the person stops fighting, the police dog handler verbally commands the dog to ‘out’ (let go or release) the bite without physical influence. The dog must promptly let go. The police dog handler can determine whether to leave their dog guarding the person after the ‘out’, or whether to recall the dog. 

In regards to the original post, and the FB post (that ZweiGSD posted) of the Sonoma Sheriff - Graton incident, it is good to see the 'full disclosure' of the 911 call that originated the actions, the body cam footage as well as the phone footage.   It shows the public that there is more to the story than the phone footage, and that the department is using all available resources to investigate the incident.



by Hundmutter on 10 April 2020 - 15:04

UK Police Forces Dog Sections do occasionally face lethal weapons, though this is somewhat less 'the norm' than in the States because we have different views and laws about guns. A lack of the 2nd Amendment does not stop our criminals from arming themselves often enough, though. Police dogs tend to be sent in rather less when the Wanted person is already thought to be armed; our Armed Units (human cops) usually take over in those circumstances.

Our general patrol dogs are expected to take out anyone they are sent after, however; does not matter if the wanted suspect turns out to be armed, and that is as true for knives etc as it is for guns. But they are also expected (and therefore trained) to Out & release properly IF they get as far as a bite (suspects are given a chance to give themselves (and weapons) up, before the dog is allowed to bite them if they won't do so quietly). Not saying the dogs don't keep a grip going, but its usually not for very long (comparing with this video !). No system is perfect but AFAIK we have only a very few incidences where a dog hangs on in there for long enough to do serious damage to a suspect, requiring a trip to hospital. Seems to work for us.

by ValK on 10 April 2020 - 20:04

in video just what was discussed on this board countless times - strong innate traits, which under certain conditions wiping off a learned up behavior.
if that isn't desirable in an application of dog, then that dog shouldn't be certified for such application in first place.

as for appropriate or inappropriate use of force by LEOs - every country has own specifics.
in country under communist regime one can be arrested and put in jail for expressing own thoughts but cops on duty didn't bear the weapon and even didn't have patrol/crowd control dogs.
in other countries you can say whatever you want to say but must be ready to be bitten by K9 or shot dead by cops for refusing to comply order.
world isn't perfect but somehow majority do manage to adapt and live their life without huge troubles under either system.

i don't understand what a big problem for ones, if police dog did bite troublemaker?

Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 10 April 2020 - 22:04

As for the cops... no matter how you spin this, it can't be justified. It just can't. Coming from Germany I will NEVER understand how this type of behavior is justifiable. The was on the ground, tazed, even put his hands behind the back and there was zero resistance from him even while the dog was on him.

by K9L1 on 11 April 2020 - 00:04

ouch!! That bite must have really hurt. Having the K9 teeth sink into his flesh and then having the dog thrashed his head, all without the benefit of being under anesthetic.

mrdarcy (admin)

by mrdarcy on 11 April 2020 - 12:04

I try to stay out of such threads but I have to say I 100% agree with Baerenfangs comment.


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