Bolle JaNaKa female offspring in KNPV - Page 5

That is the essence of training. You have to asses what the dog brings to the training and using different approaches for different dogs. That is police departments don't want IPO titled dogs, because they have become sleeve happy. Dogs who are on the fence can become successful police dogs if the training is tailored to their drives and traits. I am saying the right training for a particular dog.

IPO titled dogs are sleevehappy, another wrong assumption, again, if the ipo titled dog got what it takes, it is no problem, training a well balanced dog on a sleeve, doesnot make him unbalanced, and once on the street, he will not have to choose between sleeve or civil work

I don't disagree, but how often have you talked about the problem of people breeding to podium dogs with the result being dogs not of working caliber. Many IPO dogs are not balanced and are primarily prey dogs lacking in confident aggression. How often do you sell IPO titled dogs to police departments, especially dogs with an IPO3?  What percentage of national/international level IPO dogs do you think have the hardness, courage and fight to become police dogs?

the problem is that a good dog(well balanced) can do IPO, KNPV, or be policedog, but not every IPO or KNPV, or any other sportdog, is suitable to be a police/street dog

that has everything to do with genetic qualities, and nothing with how it is trained for certain time, you cannot untrain good balanced dog to be not balanced

having that said, every good dog can be destroyed by bad trainer however, but thats another story

 

Ipo 3 dogs are generally too old for second live as a policedog, but I did place several IPO 1, 2 and 3 dogs in LE without problems

what percentage of IPO dogs have what it take to become policedogs is hard to answer, because I dont know all of them, but I know the percentage is dropping fast 

but even a lot of breeders who breed for policedogs now breed crappy dogs, as the market demands overly social dogs mostly, and they breed what is asked for 

 

That is one thing we can agree on. Someone I know who supplies and breeds non FCI KNPV Mals/DS's only wants super social dogs and says most of his connections in Holland are wanting the same type of dog. KNPV has become more sporty like IPO and the old style dogs are not being bred much. I think it partly that handlers can't handle that type of dominant, hard dog, public relations, liability issues and political correctness.

apple, podiums' dogs has become crucial component for commercial success and thus IPO title as well, regardless of real dog quality.
let's say for example, among all of members of this board i have no problem to buy untitled, even not registered dog if that dog really
what i consider very good dog. perhaps duke and maybe few others.
would you buy the dog who comes from no-name, untitled parents?

Valk, that is an excellent question and for me, personally, absolutely I would and I have many times, so long as that dog fits my specific criteria. I do not care about papers or pedigrees, I am not a breeder, I want a dog that can work.

ADD: Let me add that one of the best explosives detection dogs I have had the pleasure of working was sold as a chocolate lab, but, when you blurred your eyes a little while looking at her, you can see the pit bull in her as well.

Still a great dog for her job description, still could not care less about papers or pedigrees, etc.

Actually, the sire of my current dog is untitled. His dam only has an IPO I. His paternal grand sire only has a SVVI. His paternal grand dam is untitled. And then there are some IPO/SVVI,2, & 3's and some BSP and WUSV dogs behind him. He is developing into a very powerful dog with angry aggression.

Hired Dog,
IMO, pedigrees are important to the extent that you if can accurately research first or second hand knowledge of what the dogs in the pedigree were like and what they produced, you can better predict what a breeding is likely to produce. If buying an adult, you simply need to test the dog. The titles don't tell you much at all. Showline GSDs have to titled to have pink papers.

Apple,
95% of my dog purchases are of young adult dogs that can be tested. You are correct about pedigrees, however, I have always been the type to look and judge the dog in front of me instead of worrying about its ancestors. Several years a go, I bought an 8 week old puppy and I contacted Cliff from the PDB who is a walking/talking encyclopedia of GSDs and pedigrees and he graciously took the time to answer the many questions I had.