Belgian Malinois > Shutzhund? (13 replies)
by Erikalovesvonlupine on 25 January 2011 - 18:27
|So I'm finally getting my malinois and I know that i'm going to be doing shutzhund with her. I usually do AKC obedience but i cant register her because she is black. What are some shutzhund registries that I can register her in?|
by Duderino on 25 January 2011 - 23:15
|First, learn about the sport, like how you spell the word "Schutzhund". Second, you don't have to "register" your dog with a SchH organization. Being as your dog is black he/she is probably from Holland and is probably a mix. You can trial with any of the organizations that do SchH in America, AWMA (IPO), DVG (VPG), UScA (SchH), WDA SchH) with a membership and a scorebook. DVG is not a breed organization so one can compete at any event. UScA and WDA will only allow you to compete at club and regional level. AWMA is a Malinois organization and AWDF member so all levels are open.|
by Erikalovesvonlupine on 26 January 2011 - 15:14
I know about the sport I've just never competed. My dog is not a mix, thanks I asked what I can register her in not how to spell "schutzhund" and if my dog was mixed or not. I was just wondering if you had to be a member of anything in order to compete and schutzhund. I'm only used to shepherds and the GSD-WDA because I work the shows.
by Duderino on 26 January 2011 - 18:45
|Trust me, if it's from Holland, it's a mix. I don't know how much your "breeder friend" told you or how much your "breeder friend" actually knows about the breed (other than he/she 's a cop and decided to breed their "dual purpose" K9, but your dog is probably mixed with a Dutch Shepherd.|
by Erikalovesvonlupine on 28 January 2011 - 18:08
|It's not from holland.|
by malndobe on 28 January 2011 - 21:08
|Are the parents from Holland? The vast majority of the "black Malinois" in this country are from Dutch KNPV stock, where 95+ percent of the dogs are mixes. The black comes from a very well known Groenedael who was successful in KNPV and was breed a number of times. But the dogs also usually have some DS and other breeds in them. |
If your dog was only Groen x Mali, then it would be correct to say it's not a mix. But technically there is no such thing as a "black Malinois", the Malinois is the short haired fawn with a black mask version of the Belgian Shepherd. The solid black, long haired ones are Groenedaels. So calling a short haired black dog a black Malinois is not any more correct than calling it a short haired Groen. It's a Belgian without a variety.
If the parents are registered with AKC, or an FCI registry, as Malinois, then you can register your pup. Regardless of color. It's just considered an incorrect color, but still acceptable for registration. Like the long haired pups from a Malinois breeding, they are still registered as Malinois.
If the parents aren't registered, you may be able to ILP it with AKC, not sure if they would take it as a Groen or a Mali, if you want to do AKC events. You could also just show it in AKC as a mix. You don't need registration to compete in Schutzhund though unless you are aiming at the World level, then you would have to have an FCI recognized registration/pedigree.
by hunter k-9 on 29 January 2011 - 02:56
|Malndobe, I was told that if you have an AKC Mali litter (fawn parents) but had a black puppy in the litter that AKC will not except the black pups. Is this true?|
by Judy P on 29 January 2011 - 03:11
|There is no selection for black on AKC paperwork - other than mask color that is. I have never had a black puppy and hope I never get one in a litter. Unfortunately I do get longer coats on some puppies. In fact the 2 I held back from my last litter have longer coats.|
by malndobe on 30 January 2011 - 07:45
|If the parents are AKC registered, AKC will register the offspring. They may want DNA proof, but if the parents are the parents, they will register the pup. Their main concern is the pedigree is correct, less so if the dog is an "off" color, coat, etc. And in Belgians, it's possible a recessive black could be lurking. Possible, not probable. IV breedings are allowed in some countries, and there are Tervs that carry the recessive black. Breed one to a Malinois, an allowed IV breeding, and you could get Malinois pups that carried the black. Line breed those pups, or use something from a similar mating, and you'd have the potential for a short haired black pup.|
I think because it's possible, AKC would take it without to much fuss. Compared to say a merle suddenly showing up, AKC is going to want proof there wasn't something added in since that's not possible with current Belgian genetics.
by QCK9 on 23 February 2011 - 01:35
|According to The Belgian Malinois Genealogy by Pat Perkins and Lee Jiles and the research of Dr. Clarence C. Little, Dr. Yves Surget and Claude Burnez, BLACK ("RECESSIVE BLACK SHORTHAIR") MALINOIS CAN BE PRODUCED VIA THE "atat" GENE FOR COAT COLOR. I BELIEVE THIS MEANS THAT IF A DOG CARRYING THIS GENE IS BRED TO ANOTHER BLACK, OR TO A FAWN CARRYING THE "ayat" RECESSIVE BLACK GENE, BLACK PUPS WILL BE PRODUCED.|
AKC actually DOES recognize black as a Malinois color.
If you use a 007 for the three digit color code, your dog will be registered as a black Malinois. The colors on your AKC Dog Registration are the "Standard" or most common colors. If you want a full list of the colors for any breed, just go to www.akccolors.org and enter your breed. Black is considered an "Alternate" color for the Malinois. I believe this means that black Mals can't compete in the show ring, but can be registered and bred.
I hope this helps,
by SportySchGuy on 23 February 2011 - 13:53
|I saw an ad awhile back advertising Black and Tan Malinois pups. I dont think that is an acceppted color but I don't know. I would love to have one though if anyone knows of any more I might be interested in buying one in the future. I wouldn't mind having a black Mali either if it were good in other aspects.|
by QCK9 on 24 February 2011 - 14:03
|WHILE IT IS EVEN MORE RARE THAN SOLID BLACKS, BICOLOR (BLACK & TAN) MALINOIS CAN BE PRODUCED VIA THE "at" GENE FOR COAT COLOR.|
AKC; HOWEVER, DOES NOT HAVE A COLOR CODE FOR BLACK & TAN.
by Duderino on 24 February 2011 - 15:38
|Or the ever popular (to some), German Shepherd gene.|
by Wufpack on 24 February 2011 - 21:02
|AKC DOES now have Black listed as a color to choose from. This is from me registering puppies online just yesterday. They also have brindle, gray, and gray sable, all colors that are not very common. So just because a Malinois is black does not mean it is a mix!|