Belgian Malinois > Are these dogs siblings or I am looking at this wrong? (5 replies)
Are these dogs siblings or I am looking at this wrong?
by vincentpmchugh on 10 March 2011 - 05:29
|Accepting deposits on great litter!|
Very nice working litter with lots of versatility, athleticism, drive, and good looks. The Full package!!!
Bella is very agile and athletic and has trained in everything from sheep herding to dock diving, schutzhund to tracking, obedience to frisbee! Bella has her sch. BH, CGC, and was the 2010 novice toss and fetch state frisbee champion!
Tripp has OVER the top toy drive and food drive and loves to bite anything and everything! He is deep red with black overlay and full mask, well built, intelligent, and very willing to please. Tripp has trained in a variety of sports and has his French Ring CSAU, CGC, AKC CD, and numerous frisbee awards. He is currently going for his HT/PT in herding, French Ring Brevet, and TT. Tripp is also starting narcotics
by Mal07 on 10 March 2011 - 15:30
|Hey good observation vincent. Yes, they are half siblings. Both sired by rindy. The people breeding those two dogs are probably doing the 2-2 line breeding on rindy for one reason or another. Just a guess.|
by vincentpmchugh on 11 March 2011 - 04:58
|So what genetic dispositions would this cause? It is a little close for my taste!!! In retrospect isn't this type of line breeding what caused the GSD to start to have the common problems that they now have? The dog Rindy is already line bred a 2,2 on Loubo du Boscaille I would say that it is time to out cross already. What do you think?|
by havick68 on 11 March 2011 - 06:12
|Always good to ask good questions. We are doing this breeding for a very specifc reason. While it sounds weird for human breeding, line breeding (responsibly done) is a critical part of dog breeding. Inbreeding (like breeding full brother sister, mother son, etc... ) is frowned upon (although done by professional breeders looking for a certain trait) however for us it's too genetically similar and can create problems and so don't do breedings that tight.|
But line breeding has produced some of the best working dogs including the foundation stock for early service dogs. We are not the type of breeders that would sacrafice a litter to get one good dog. These dogs will be healthy and superior working dogs. A similar breeding was done previously that produced tremendous dogs.
Here's a simple explanation: http://www.kirbymountainkennels.com/Articles/practices.html
Good topic of conversation and good of you to ask questions! With a lot of questionable breeders out there, it's good to have a skeptical eye.
by havick68 on 11 March 2011 - 06:45
|One more thing to add...it's important after a breeding like this that obviously pups are outcorssed. The hip issue like seen in GSD is actually quite complicated. In my opinion it was the breed explosion, back yard breeding, and lack of understanding what traits people were breeding for that craeted problems along with a flawed breed standard to begin with. But even the inclusion of OFA and Penn Hips screenings have not come close to solving the issues. The truth is there are a lot of factors involved.|
To this day, in all breeds, I see people who clearly don't understand dog structure for work based on the pictures they post and the dogs they match to breed.
In some circumstances, line breeding has actually been used to reduce genetic problems and certainly to showcase carriers of major problems.
Fortuntuantely in this breeding we know this will not be the case in terms of recessive genes creating hip problems. We only do 1-2 breedings per year and are very selective in who we breed and where the pups go. I'm really excited to see these pups come based on previous breedings!
by vincentpmchugh on 11 March 2011 - 07:53
|It is good to see that you have done your research on this topic and know what you are doing and why. Just like you said there are too many people out there who are breeding to make a quick buck and have no care or direction in what they are putting out there.|
I was fully aware that a lot of breeders mostly back in the day would do very close inbreeding's to pick out or increase a certain trait. I have seen much closer breeding's than this one but not for a while.
I spent two years looking for a male to use as a stud that had the traits that I was looking for. I mostly out crossed but there is some common ancestry in the 5th generation which is almost to far back to count, but I bred to the same type of dog, both in temperament and looks. I also have a litter on the way with the same male, I used the first time. Even knowing what type of dog I was breeding to I wanted to wait until the pups from the first litter were at least a year old to determine if I wanted to stick with the stud I used or find another one with closer relatives to my bitch. . All of the pups turned out to be exactly what I expected, high aggression, good prey,correct size to the breed standard and a very clear head.
So about type, can't you achieve close to the same results by breeding type instead of breeding so close? I know that there are tons of Malinois people out there who are breeding to pull out specific traits that work for there purpose, be it FR, MR, SchH, SAR, Show etc...but they are starting to neglect the breed standard in the Malinois and it's true calling as a top of the line working dog. (I am not saying you are) This is something that I think needs to be taken into consideration when breeding. I am not breeding show Malinois, I think that there are 7 KNPV titled dogs just in the first 3 generations of my pups and I know for a fact that there are 2 SchH III females.
Here is a link to my ad.