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ForumsBelgian Malinois > Stahlrosenhof Kennels? (17 replies)
Stahlrosenhof Kennels? by trailside22 on 22 July 2010 - 19:17 |
| I am planning on purchasing my first Malinois in the near future. I have been doing a lot of research over the past several months learning about breeders, bloodlines and even attended a few competitions. In my research I have found Stahlrosenhof Kennels out of Knoxville, Tennessee, however I have not been able to find out a lot about them. They seem to be a very reputable breeder, but I would like to know if anyone knows anything about them or their bloodlines. Thank you for any information you can provide it will be a great help. |
by Phil Behun on 23 July 2010 - 02:06 |
| If this "breeder" is reputable as you say, why is it you can't find anything out? What is it about your research that leads you to believe their dogs are what you are looking for? What is it you are looking for? Seems to me that the Dutch dogs that they are using have no paperwork and certainly (by the looks of them) have GSD in their lineage. |
Phil Behun by vincentpmchugh on 23 July 2010 - 03:09 |
| First off don't listen to people like Phil!! The lines of the dogs are from the Perle de Tourbiere Kennel, they are KNPV style dogs. As far as the rest of the dogs that kennel has I am not sure where they are from. The best thing for you to do is to call them and ask questions pertaining to what you are looking for as far as what type of sport you want to do, or what type of training you want to do. There is another place that has the same style of dogs the website is www.topgunk9.com the guys name is Tim he is very helpful and will place a dog with you that will fit your needs. Continue in your reasearch and if you have any further questions please feel free to e-mail me vincent.mchugh@yahoo.com |
by Phil Behun on 23 July 2010 - 04:32 |
| Ahhhh, very adult response. I'm guessing you just happen to have a litter of Tourbiere stuff laying around somewhere. Don't bother asking this person what experiences they have had in dogs or what their intentions are with a new puppy,,,,,just sell 'em one 'cuz you really like your doggies and you think they are the best. Apparently an objective opinion is not welcome in your world. You take over from here and regale us with your vast knowledge of the breed and it's abilities. |
by eltroco on 26 July 2010 - 06:19 |
| I have a dog from that Kennel. His name is Autana von Stahlrosenhof. When I got him I was really looking for a working -pet that remember me the one I had when I was a child. Autana has alot of drive, he is a very, very civil dog, perfect dog for personal protection, not a dog for sport. at all. I have him as a protection dog. His bite is one of the meaner and fuller I have ever seen. He is a serious dog and definitely not for a novice. He is a safe dog in the park, at walks, at home with family, kids and friends. Call Janet and ask her question about what are you looking for she has alot of knowledge about the breed and she is a trainer herself. |
by Phil Behun on 26 July 2010 - 15:12 |
| Again, it kind of goes back to one's reasons for getting a Malinois. Do you (not you in particular) want a dog for sport or personal protection? Do you want a pet? (get another breed) Were you able to register your dog? |
by eltroco on 26 July 2010 - 15:19 |
| Yes, he is AKC register, now he is my trained protection pet and besides him I have another malinois which is a sport dog and we practice ring sports |
by trailside22 on 26 July 2010 - 20:54 |
| Let me tell you briefly what I am looking for and why I want a Malinois. I want to start out with a puppy. First, and foremost I want a good companion for my family; me, my wife and our son who is almost 4. I want one who will protect my family if the need arises. I want one who I can take to the park and will socialize with other people and dogs. We are a very active family . I am going to work obedience (herding) and protection. I want a dog that has a moderate drive with great temperament I don't want or need one that is hyper drive and all over the place. (I know Malinois have a high drive, maybe more than any other breed.) I need one that can think, work well under stress, but yet be a family companion as well. I believe the Malinois is one of the only breeds that can protect my family and work as well. I would prefer a male. I don't have any plans on breeding or titling, but plans can always change. I do have some experience working with a couple different breeds. I have trained Border Collies and Australian Cattle Dogs for herding, not competition but real working dogs on cattle farms. My past dog was a Blue Heeler which was a great cattle dog and companion. He is no longer working, but is 14 years old and in good health. He now lives with my parents and 96 year old grandfather. I also have a trainer that lives less than 3 miles from my house. She trains Malinois and GSD for protection and police work and has agreed to help with whatever I need. |
by reedman222 on 27 July 2010 - 20:41 |
Give ot-vitosha kennels a call or mohawks malinois a call. either one of them will give you a straight answer. And no, I dont own a dog from them! |
by Phil Behun on 27 July 2010 - 22:50 |
| So, you're saying that my answer was not honest and straight forward enough? That by asking someone what experiences they have had in dogs or what their goals are with a dog is inappropriate? Did I try and sell him a puppy? As you can probably surmise, I take exception to the "straight answer" comment. |
by reedman222 on 29 July 2010 - 18:37 |
| Phil, You seem to exception to a lot of posts on this forum. I was just giving them other options of breeders to look into without all of the side commentary that comes with a lot of messages that are posted not only from you, but other people too! |
by Phil Behun on 29 July 2010 - 20:00 |
| So what you are saying is that trying to get background information about what a first time Malinois owner can expect from the breed is not a straight answer? Would you rather just sell someone a puppy and have them call you back 2 days later and tell you "it's too much dog for us, we want to bring it back". That's after what they told me was a 2 year research study on "the breed for them and their active lifestyle". My side commentary comes from spending 29 years training dogs and helping people not only find the right fit for their situation but also helping, in many cases, people who have never owned a dog before learn how to live with one. I have seen the Malinois become very popular over the last 20 years and have witnessed many people get into the breed for the wrong reasons. The Malinois has become the easy way out for getting dogs that bring a lot to the table without a lot of finesse or ability contributed by the handler. Personally, I don't like it and being that this is a public forum where ideas and thoughts are openly discussed, I believe I have the right to offer my opinion. In the future, if you don't like what I have to say, skip over my posts and find someone who agrees with you. Side commentary complete. |
by vincentpmchugh on 30 July 2010 - 05:50 |
| "Again, it kind of goes back to one's reasons for getting a Malinois. Do you (not you in particular) want a dog for sport or personal protection? Do you want a pet? (get another breed) Were you able to register your dog?" (Phil Behun) Here is a demeaning misconception about the Malinois i think someone is trying to convey through all of his useless posts. First they are high drive very active dogs, and that is shown in any form of research that anyone can conduct. Second they do not fit with the typical dog owners needs and are often dumped off for a lack of understanding of the breed if acquired by someone with little knowledge. That is not to say that pet owners can not own one. It is about the lines of the dog that you intend to buy and the future owners devotion, it is about as simple as that. First off don't confuse or misinterpret my intentions, I feel as a breeder and a Malinois enthusiast that you should not alter the true intentions that the dog was originally breed for. For example DO NOT breed out the aggression, or do not breed out the drive so you can create low drive useless Malinois so you can sell them to pet homes. Intern breed for the true intentions and workability that the dog was breed for in the first place. There are many different types of Malinois out there and I know that most have heard terms like French Ring Lines, KNPV Lines, Schutzhund Lines, ect... and yes I know that there is dramatic differences in body type, different levels of aggression and many other things, but that is something that individual breeders have developed in there blood lines. Who is to say that this is correct to the true intentions of breeding dogs in general? What I am trying to say here is if you intend on getting a Malinois and have never had one search out people that are willing to help and that have Malinois, go visit them, discuss your intentions, and let them know your experiance level, and a good breeder that knows there dogs will let you know if there dogs are right for you; and a bad breeder will turn you away because you have never had a Mal before and say stupid s### like the above post. Now this boils down to the fact that I am sick and tired of reading someone's posts about the Malinois. For someone that says he is dedicated and enjoys the breed so much you sure are a negative Nancy and have no respect for the breed if you do not want to share what little positive knowledge of the breed that you may have or think that you are so great that only people like yourself should own one of these incredible dogs. "YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE" So in conclusion don't look at the Malinois as though they are all crazy and loaded with stupid look at them like you should they are a tool and are capable of doing many things and that includes being a very active pet. |
by malndobe on 30 July 2010 - 13:58 |
| Although I agree with your statement So in conclusion don't look at the Malinois as though they are all crazy and loaded with stupid look at them like you should they are a tool and are capable of doing many things and that includes being a very active pet. and actually a lot of your post, I can also see Phil's point of view, or at least where I think he's coming from. When I first got into the Malinois about 20 years ago, nobody knew what they were, and 98% of the people that wanted one, wanted one to work. Even if the work was "just" to be an active pet and personal protection dog, they did intend to train it on a regular basis. Now, I have to agree with Phil I have seen the Malinois become very popular over the last 20 years and have witnessed many people get into the breed for the wrong reasons. The Malinois has become the easy way out for getting dogs that bring a lot to the table without a lot of finesse or ability contributed by the handler. I talk to WAY to many people who admit they don't even really like the breed, but they have one because that's what wins in their sport of choice. But if they weren't doing that sport, they would never consider having a Malinois. In addition, I have seen a HUGE increase in the number of people looking for a Malinois as a pet/protection dog. I don't have a problem with that, but many (most?) of these people have little to no dog experience, no intentions of actually training the dog, and a lifestyle that isn't conducive to a high drive/high energy dog. They say they have done all the research and are positive this is the breed for them, but if you dig deeper what they have done is watch a few cool videos on the internet, looked at some photos, and decided a Malinois is what they want, because they think it will just naturally do all the things they see on the video. They like the idea of an active dog, then you find out their version of an active dog is a dog they take for a 2 mile walk twice a week and toss in the backyard the rest of the time. When I talk to these people, I do my best to educate them on what the breed is like to live with, then send them on their way, but the reality is 90% of them will just go find another breeder, who will sell them a dog, who will then end up in the pound or rescue because it was way more dog then they wanted. Or they will find a breeder who is watering down the dogs, specifically to sell to homes like this. |
malndobe by Phil Behun on 30 July 2010 - 16:01 |
| Exactly. re the earlier post, if you don't like what I have to say,,,,,,,,,don't read it. |
by Phil Behun on 30 July 2010 - 21:30 |
| Let me 'splain it this way; football is my favorite sport but for the sake of discussion, I'll use a baseball example. I am a White Sox fan born and raised in Chicago, my sister, her husband and even my 85 year old mother are huge Cub fans. Because I dislike the Cubs, does that mean I am not a baseball fan? Vince seems to think because I don't like Dutch dogs or Perle de Tourbiere dogs, that I am not a Malinois lover. It is my affection for the breed that leads me to the opinion that they (the Malinois) are not for everyone. I don't breed my dogs to push out puppies for sale, I breed for myself. I assembled the bloodlines that I have now to breed the type of Malinois that I like,,,,,,,for me. I now have one. So, consequently my breeding is on hold. I have what I want (so far,,,fingers crossed) so I don't need to produce any more. If you think that trying to insult me is going to hurt my feelings, you got the wrong guy. Will it change my opinion of dogs from Holland or Perle de Tourbiere,,,no. You like 'em, good for you. I don't want one. You want to breed pets? Please get another breed. Sure every now and then a dog or two come out of a litter that aren't necessarily working machines, but when it becomes the majority of the litter, there is a problem. When the goal of a breeding program is to find pet homes for a working dog, I cry foul. Ask the working Border Collie people,,,,,not AKC folk but the hardcore sheep herders what their opinion is of agility/obedience Border Collies. Keep the Malinois a strong working dog with the weaker ones being eliminated from the gene pool, not necessarily by culling but at least by spay/neuter. Backyard novices breeding their dogs and selling unpapered mutts for $200 have no place in the breed. JMO |
by MAINLYMAX on 10 August 2010 - 16:56 |
| Phil, PDT has this to bring to the table, Eik DP2, and lots of him. .........I love that dog and no other dog is quite like him. The other one I like is Othar who is in the top 5 of all time Malinois stud dogs. But.....I use about a 1/8 of Jan's line in my dogs and I get excellent bite work because of that. There is no argument about the mixing going on in the Netherlands or in Belgium, but I still would recommend Jan's dogs for Courage and very good bite work. This is a general post. But if you like you can ask some more specific question. I like Phil's line because he uses of very good NVBK dogs. NVBK dogs by the way, are notoriously bred and mixed, but reg with false documentation. I have had breeders tell many times the dogs I see on the pedigree were only for regs. This is very frightening to most people. But in Northern Belgium and the Netherlands they are not going to pass on a very good working dog because it is not Reg. Kind of the history of the breed. It was the poor mans dog. Talk to Jan, he is a very big part of this breed. I personally like to keep my Malinois about 70-75lbs and hard as steel. So I stay with a German, Belgium and Dutch blend. My dutch is PDT about 1/8. Disclaimer.........Phils dogs are all properly registered..........I will have him jumping my ass for making a insinuation. NVBK in general has this history. |
MAINLYMAX by Spencer on 25 October 2010 - 16:06 |
| A good dog is a good dog. It dont matter. Vinnie quit posting. Unless you really are that bored... |
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