Belgian Malinois > Turcados (18 replies)
by Kreiger on 09 April 2010 - 10:47
|Here is a dog that was used by many breeders in the Malinois World,Turcados!|
My question being,Can any one tell me the pros and cons of linebreeding 2-3,3-3or3-4 on Turcados??
What does he bring to the table good and bad?
by Phil Behun on 09 April 2010 - 14:15
by Jon luc on 09 April 2010 - 14:28
|Finally a really good question for the Malinois people. |
Kreiger you must be from the GSD people yes?
Turcados, bred by John, owned by Ivan. These two
people is were you should start. As a breeder the
challenge is this, can you produce something as good or
better than what you already have? Ergo Stoned, Turcado papa.
Stoned was bred off two very good dogs. Elgos as
most people know, produces a very good calm grip,
but tends to be a little slow on the long bite. So as
as a breeder John found a very good balance with
Elgos, a Nyeska daughter Pita. Ivan said he had
found the New Messiah in Qenny. That would mean
he would be ready to take the Stoned bloodline a
step farther. Here is the real question do you think
Pigrine, Turcados mother is something worthy of
line breeding. This will be something Ivan will have to
find out. Stoned is already being line bred. But
a question like this could cause allot of fur to fly.
The answer of course is, it's much to soon to tell.
As a Stoned son Turcados is one of the best
by Jon luc on 09 April 2010 - 15:03
|One other thing, Elgos produces dogs that are very trainable.|
Some time you are faced with a problem of high energy, and
train-ability. This is were I think the Malinois really out does the
other breeds. There performance is nothing short of phenomenal.
Very good question. I would like too see other great dogs critiqued
here on this forum.
by hunter k-9 on 09 April 2010 - 15:39
Above is my friends female, she has a nice nose and super grips. She is easy to handle and her temperament is solid.
by Mal07 on 09 April 2010 - 16:46
|Stoned has produced several great dogs such as turcados. What about yagus? Any details on this dog?|
by Jon luc on 09 April 2010 - 18:16
|Hunter K-9, Du Dantero a very good Kennel. I like to seek out the best|
people and use what they have that nobody else has. This is true in training
Malo7, Stoned I think is fair to say has etched his name in history. He is
definitely one of my favorite Elgos sons.
by hunter k-9 on 09 April 2010 - 20:14
He is wanting to breed her to Master but that would be a year or two down the road. We will see if he is in the states still, I know he was for sale at 35g's.
by Mal07 on 09 April 2010 - 20:42
|Jon, I know stoned is an awesome dog but I asked if you knew anything about his son yagus.|
by Jon luc on 09 April 2010 - 23:16
Yargus will produce big puppies, Master is a very
good Yargus son. Master's mother is a little small, but a
beautiful bitch. Master came out just right. With very good
looks and super working drives. Master is very good dog.
Argus Is a good dog out of Yargus, he is a big dog and
he to produces big dogs, I would like to see more breedings off
of Master while he is in this country. He might get sold to over sea's.
by Mal07 on 10 April 2010 - 01:02
|I was just wondering because I happen to have a yagus daughter. She has brains and beauty. Very talented but I didn't know a whole lot about yagus. I'm a big fan of stoned and turcados so I figured I couldn't go wrong|
by TJL852 on 10 April 2010 - 01:58
|Yagus has produced extremely well. I would say Turcodos and Yagus are Stoned's two most prolific sons. I have the female listed above by hunterk9. Extremely nice dog, very high drives. I could not ask for more in a female. She is doing great with schutzhund training. (Thanks Kadi!). You definitely didn't go wrong with a Yagus daughter. These lines and Nelton des Deux Pottois lines (Kukay's) are my favorites.|
by Phil Behun on 10 April 2010 - 05:25
|Spot on with the Elgos long bite info there Jon Luc. I had a Turcodos son that I sold for that exact reason. Grips were super full and super calm. Escape bite was packed every time but the long bite?????was never going to be what I need to see in a Malinois. Very biddable and easy to work with but I have to have a dog with a little bit more punch and aggression,,,,but that's just me. There's always someone for every dog, one man's ceiling is another man's floor.|
by Get A Real Dog on 11 April 2010 - 02:42
|I think the two things you have to watch for breeding heavy on Elgos are elbows and brains. I have seem some stuff from Elgos that were dumb as a brick. |
As for the long sends, I am not sure. I know Elgos himself wasn't fast on the long send, from what I understand and have seen in videos neither was Stoned. But look at dogs like Turc himself. That dog was a banger. Echo in the abouve breeding is a very fast hard hitting dog, (opinion based on video) as is his Luigi. Then look at Master. Yagus did not impress me on the long send but Master sure as hell does.
by Jon luc on 11 April 2010 - 14:31
You are absolutely right Turcados was a banger, he comes in like the Dutchies
and hits very hard. This was his signature. I think when Ivan saw this it was like when I
first saw a dutch shepherd in Holland knock down a very heavy set decoy. He was knocked
off his feet and traveled about 8 feet in the air before he hit the ground. I said to my self I don't believe
what I just saw. I was working Rottweilers at the time and decided to look into the Malinois. After my
first Malinois, who was a very good dog , I never went back to any other breed.
by malndobe on 11 April 2010 - 17:29
|I'm not convinced you can compare a dogs entry between sports. A Sch, KNPV or BR dog has a target they know isn't going to move when they get there. The FR dogs target is, and they know it. There are dogs in FR with insane entries, so obviously it's possible, but I know multiple FR dogs who have good entries in FR, and excellent entries if you put them on a Sch sleeve. Actually one dog I can think of (non-Malinois) has mediocre entries in FR but knocks decoys down if you put him on a Sch sleeve. He just over thinks the FR stuff way to much, comes down the field fast but when he gets there has this total "where do I go, where do I go" thing going on. Give him one target, no reason to think, and he can be a banger. I also think foundation can have a lot to do with it, the real banger dogs I see in FR were raised in FR, technique isn't a thought process for them, it's an automatic reaction. Dogs that have to think, vs just react, are generally dogs that started FR training later, sometimes after training in another venue first. |
Back to Elgos, something else you have to watch for is soft pads on the feet. My Elgos son had tender feet, the pads didn't wear through or tear any more/faster then any other dog I have had, but he was tender footed on different surfaces. I've seen that in a few of his offspring also, and heard about it in other Elgos descendants.
With Turcodos what I have seen is drive, grips, trainability, entries, aggression as good traits. The biggest negative I've seen is the pups can go through some real quirky stages growing up. If allowed to just grow up, exposed to the world but not forced to neccessarily interact with it, they seem to outgrow it for the most part, but sometimes it takes until they are 1.5 for them to outgrow it, which can be a long time for someone to wait, to see if their dog is going to be one of the ones that does. When they do the final product is worth the wait though.
by Mal07 on 11 April 2010 - 18:00
|Malndobe, Very well put!! Some of these traits are issues of nature vs nurture. This forum has came to life this week. Its about time.|
by Jon luc on 11 April 2010 - 20:33
Wow, you really seem to know your stuff. I have dogs that
will work stock until their feet are raw. So I have to watch so they don't over work.
I am glad you said to wait on some dogs because a lot of very good Malinois do
not hit their stride until later than usual. My last dog that I bought, the breeder, told me this was going
to happen, and for a while there, I thought he ripped me off. And sure enough the dog
was like day and night a late bloomer. This is why I say a good breeder can be your best
friend if he knows his bloodlines. Very good information.
The dutch shepherd I saw was not bridle, but looked like a Malinois with
a big head. The decoy had ran out and turned into the dog bracing himself
for the attack, but to no avel, that dog took him right off his feet. This was early 70's.
It was amazing to every one standing there and needless to say to the decoy as well.
by K9riot on 13 April 2010 - 14:10
|Master was mentioned above. Why aren't more people using him as a stud here in the US? I have a Czech born Master son. Nice dog. Loaded with drive + character. On the small side though.|
For a short time last year, I also owned a half-brother (same sire - Echo) to the Dantero dog mentioned above. Nice dog that I really, really liked, but not right for the job I needed him to do. Brains, drive and biddability, environmentally solid, but his previous owners really tweaked his perspective on strangers. HRD dogs shouldn't bite bystanders, so I had to find him another job.