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by ValK on 14 June 2019 - 18:06

apple, on many occasions i pointed out - main difference between western breeding GSDs and former eastern breeding not in their visual appearance but in their mentality/temperament. previously, before seeing it, i didn't know that and never even was thought about.
after Ari (my last dog from border program) passed away, it took me a year to drive around province to eventually find something prospective from my point of view. well, to make it short - i didn't have issues with structure, health, agility, disposition to be trained, selfconfidence of my last dog Siegie. what was frustrating it's his lack of maturity i used to see in all my previous dogs. but for everyone else he was a very good dog.

maybe emorig, with his undeniable talent for writing, can do but for me it seems this aspect of dog's personality is impossible to express in words.
i think one must see that dog to understand what it all about.

i do not object your perception of communist regimes, you're very much right at that.
but you're wrong in regards of dog's breeding.
you should understand - there weren't influences other than needs for dogs with particular traits to be suitable efficiently perform certain work at border. not all dogs in their breeding was such but objectives of breeding program was with goal to maximize suitable outcome.
they do not used such young dogs for breeding, waiting and observing how dogs evolve and prove themselves to be worthy but at same time they didn't have time to idle dogs for 3 years. best examination of dog's abilities lays in practical utilization.
and believe me, program was very efficient.

secondly, and i told it before - no dogs was ever changed hands in exchange for money. there weren't needs in famous names in the paperwork to drive up price. neither dogs was entered in any database other than book record in vet's office at border. there simply wasn't any reasons to falsify dog's genealogy tree.
sure, approach in training was quite different but it worked well. if dogs easily climb 6 feet vertical wall, then why one need to switch to A frame?
if dogs in protection exercise continues the fight even after pain to them been inflicted - why one need to write the rules to soften exercise?

by apple on 14 June 2019 - 19:06

They softened schutzhund to accommodate the show lines and the sport became a competition rather than a breed worthiness test, which, as you have said, has to do with profit and harms the breed.
emoryg

by emoryg on 14 June 2019 - 22:06

Juno, I look at it like this, a courageous police dog is able to overcome his fears.  The confident police dog never experiences them.    

Valk, I spoke with a friend about the German Shepherds who acted like puppies when under threat.  He said I showed him the video of when I tested them, but I don’t remember making the recording.  Maybe someone else made the recording and gave me a copy.  I will look in some boxes just in case it is in there.

I remember the early DDR dogs when they came over.  They were not familiar with having the sleeve slipped or thrown on the ground to chase.  It was not a present or reward to them.  Sometimes a helper gets complacent when working club dogs and knows he is safe with the sleeve.  Then you would work some of those dogs and realize it is not the sleeve they were interested in.  It makes a strong impression on you. 

If anyone is interested, here is the pedigree of the show line dog that I mentioned that took the pressure and became a police dog.   http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=2805851-gordon-emcil     

I tried to upoad a picture of us, but keep getting an error message.

 

 

by ValK on 18 June 2019 - 21:06

apple, doesn't matter much motive of regulatory body.
breeders of WL seems gladly have accepted and happily comply to those changes.

by ValK on 18 June 2019 - 21:06

emorig, looks like on maternal side Grand vom Ritterberg was closest one, whose genes managed to squeeze in and left some print in that dog.
there was a good reason why Pushkass vom Haus Himpel in DDR breeding was chosen to be founder of XIa bloodline.
emoryg

by emoryg on 18 June 2019 - 23:06

Valk, I knew he grabbed some good blood from way back in his pedigree.  He was a nice dog.  Interesting thing about him, it was not very often that I track down women criminals and most of the time they were with a man.  Gor-don however located several women while we were tracking.  One was not a criminal; she had some mental issues and had taken a three week infant with her.  She was deep in the woods cradling the child.  I was so proud of him that night.  It was her baby, but she came off of her medication during her pregnancy.  They were taken to the hospital for hypothermia and both recovered. 

I tried looking through tapes to find the submissive dogs.  Many tapes wont play in the VCR.  The interesting thing was the dogs could bite the suit or sleeve, take stick hits, etc.  But when removed from that environment and threatened with no equipment, they would initially start showing aggressive displays, but as the threat increase they would just start acting submissive like little puppies to their mother.

I did upload a couple videos of one of my dogs as we practice schutzhund.  This is early 90s and we would not start doing police work till a few years later.  I was still a firefighter back then.  I did manage to get him to focus on the sleeve and be safe enough to enter the schutzhund trials before we went to the police department as a K-9 team. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpKv-8xQRf4

https://youtu.be/kHKkZdsT7Xc

 

 

 

kitkat3478

by kitkat3478 on 19 June 2019 - 00:06

I have only read the first post and decided to jump right in before I see what everyone else else has to say. I have been breeding that way for years. I have 3 dogs certified police k9. Not only do the police come to me for police dogs, they come to me for their own personal family dogs. Two weeks ago one Trooper came to get a pup for his autistic son. Not even a week later, they called to see if I had another one, which I did not. I have the perfect balance in my dogs. I had the dog trainer come get one after he has had several in his club he been training which he greatly impressed with. I have brought the DDR, showline, working line and czech lines all together, as I feel they belong. It doesn't t matter what the task put to them, they up for it. I am very proud of my dogs, and everyone of them ust loves kids.

And , I come backnowledge after reading everyone's posts, same old , same old. 

I have to wonder, how is it 3 of my dogs made the cut for police k9, but all showline be crap. 

I have put them up here before, I guess I have to think somehow the police depth must be shoddy or something. 

Or maybe too many judge all showline dogs the same way, inferior. Well my boy Duke, out of Kevin Murrell would have given anyone a run for theIr money. One awesome bold dog, fear of nothing. One of the best moves I made when I got him and added him to my breeding.

by ValK on 19 June 2019 - 05:06

kitkat
3 dogs certified police k9. Not only do the police come to me for police dogs, they come to me for their own personal family dogs...
...and everyone of them ust loves kids.
And , I come backnowledge after reading everyone's posts, same old , same old. 

I have to wonder, how is it 3 of my dogs made the cut for police k9, but all showline be crap. 

I have put them up here before, I guess I have to think somehow the police depth must be shoddy or something. 

i'm shy to ask but curiosity overwhelms - those buyer are detective John Kimble who need dogs for work undercover?


kitkat3478

by kitkat3478 on 19 June 2019 - 07:06

No, they are on patrol with partners, two are NYC Police k9 and one is Sheriff's dept. K9. They have done real good on narcotic detection and aprpehension work.
You can call it a fluke, or strange occur ancestors but it's very true. I was more then a little shocked myself when I found out they graduated police acadamy. It's a good thing I wasn't t swayed by the majority when I began my search for dogs.
I watched, I read, and watched some more until I confident I was doing the rI got thing, and I think that 3 dogs working police k9, numerous dogs involved in dog sport, several service dogs and the majority living happy active lives with families, is good enough for me,That's three more than a good deal of breeders that stay in the box, strictly breeding within their favored lines have got.
And yes, I agree, that just some good old dumb luck. Lucky in my choices of dogs. I have no health issues in my dogs either.

by Juno on 19 June 2019 - 12:06

Emoryg,

Is the decoy in your videos the owner/handler of Lord? Looks very familiar and he obviously speaks with a German accent hence I ask. Curious.

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