behavior expectations - Page 3

Life is about politics!!!! Sure there are politics. But I think it is subtle - a point or two in a trial. A place or two in a show. Sure a place can be a big deal when it is a first and third. But, politics and personal perference are part of the game. Overall, I doubt anything really that blatant is common. People know who likes their type, and who dosen't. I have sat with judges and 'smoozed' - it did not stop them from failing my dog in some phase when he deserved it, and it did not give him a V when he did not deserve. I have only ever seen one real abuse by a judge. It was passing a failed B because the owner was a cute young thing and cried. Actually let her redo it and passed. Other than that one time, the most I ever saw was an extra point given when it made an SG score a V, or a G an SG and it did not affect a High whatever award. That is trial perspective of course, not show.

Hi Heather and Jerry, I have seen it happen, too that outside people took the judge sighseeing or dining. But there are always two sides of the story. Some clubs treat judges very very badly. I have heard stories from judges themselves: A few examples: One judge had to sleep in somebody's attic on a mattress, another one was taken to a hotel (?) where it was obvious that this establishment was rented out by the hour (you know what I mean?). Another judge was dropped off at the airport early in the monring, although his flight did not leave until late at night.The people did not like his placements for club members. One judge told me that he felt raped. The club expected him to put the favorite dog of the club in first place. In reality, this dog (in the judge's opinion) deserved a V-rating on a club show level, but not necessarily higher. The other side: I have overheard a judge once in a bar asking a top breeder: And what can I do for you tomorrow? I was disgusted, because it seemed so obvious. But then I began to think: It might have just been lack of English language and was not meant that way. The same judge stood in the ring with me next day and said: Too bad, I have to place this dog No. 1, because he was our president's choice at the Sieger Show, and I cann't shovel my own grave. That happened many years ago. Also, nobody should put too much into having a beer with the judge. Before our children, my husband and I used to be the last ones to call it in at night in the hotelbars. We all had fun, exhibitors, handlers, and judges alike. We all like our dogs and it is nice to talk about it. After all, we do not see each other that often. In Germany at the shows, they all hang around the beerstands. Nobody stays in a hotel because it is within driving distance. But it boils down to the same reason. Our club has hosted the 1994 USA Sieger Show and we have had numerous regional and club shows. I also translated for a lot of our clubs. Naturally, you meet a lot of people. Over the years, we can call a lot of judges (working and show) our friends. But I would never never ever embarrass a judge (friend or not) with a bad dog and expect him to place it favorably. That is downright tasteless, and you would loose a friend. Judges are human, too. Once, our club hosted Leonhard Schweikert, who is a great judge and wonderful person. He surprised many people with his generous placements, including working people. He told me that he admires us for our dedication here. He met people who drove 8 to 10 hours to show their dog. How could he possibly put these people down. Of course, if they came to the Sieger Show, then the dog has to be better prepared and he would be tougher. He only had dinner with the club members to the point where people would joke and call him "our" exclusive judge. But oops, he disqualified a female I co-owned for gun shyness. No favoritism, but he apologized to me (and to others). What a great man! Chris

I've been looking over some results of the sieger show in Madison and I'm trying to figure out which big kennels really influenced a judges decision as accused. I was there and things looked above board to me in the classes. Talking to and meeting judges is a part of the sport. There is lots of information passed on as well as opinions of what dogs look promising for the future. They have a judges reception where everyone can meet and talk to the judges. You will see some participants dominate the judges attention. I'm not convinced this is beneficial. Maybe annoying. These judges see hundreds of people and their dogs. They know and deal with most of them each year. After the shows in Germany, they usually remain and socialize with the people in attendence. Same here, no big deal. No matter what you say, what you think, a good dog that's properly prepared and trained will be a better investment of you time and resources that worrying about or trying to develop politics.

I agree with you silberbee, But there is a point to being friendly and enjoying each others company ect. (as my boyfriend use to say, I don't know a stranger. I will talk to anyone.) But to say that it dosn't happen is being silly. It doesn't happen with all the judges, just some and not all the time just some of the time. Moe....I am talking about people who have gotten dogs from me or who have GSD's and just want to learn more about thier breed. It wouldn't be anyone you would know. I am talking about going off of the topic that has anything to do with the dogs, and going into the "i don't like you, or what you said, did, had, bred, ate, wore,drove....ect" Let's just stick to the dogs. Heather

Oh...those clients, I thought you were a lawyer for a minute there. Once again I am sorry to have gone off topic. I will end my interuptions with a copy of a recent post by Elizabeth, and a copy of a reply to her post, and then just maybe you will understand where I'm coming from. This is a post regarding Alex Farbenspeil ELIZABETH Says “So why did Alex not show yet another NASS? What is his real address? Is this dog the property of Megan Judge or in the process of being dumped? Who would spend that kind of money and just let anyone "keep" your dog? The dog is now being bred to titled and untitled bitches (but amazingly with future dates of title). What the heck is being stated here? HAL Replies “Elizabeth I also know this dog and his owner very well. He produced the vice sieger in the 9-12 month class males at the 2004 NASS very beautiful young male. A beautiful daughter of his was also vp8 and she started out in 4th place. I have seen what he is producing and I will breed my Titled females to him soon. Your unkind post is just more of the same on this site about top dogs. You know how to reach his owner and your questions could have been answered. You were not looking for information but rather trying to trash this fantastic male. You should be so lucky to have such a male. Megan hurt her knee and could not train or work with Alex, friends in CT were kind to take him and show him. Alex is back he will be bred to very nice females and Megan has no thought of selling him. Alex is almost 7 years old he does not need to be shown again to prove himself. As for you Elizabeth please if you need more information contact Megan Judge at hausjuris.com. So it does appear that there are others who also take exception to the content of Elizabeth’s posts. Have a nice day.

GSD Exhibitors develop politics for short and long term benefits. Over a period of 10 or 20 years they can enjoy the benefits of their politics on many accessions, ok they will not win every time with a decent dog, after all the goodies have to be shared amongst the other who have developed politics. A 1st place instead of a 2nd 3rd or 4th place can make a BIG difference, and a 2nd 3rd or 4th, is much more preferable than a 7th 10th or 12th place. A Champion is perceived as much better than a 'nearly' Champion, and you can accumulate more over the years if you develop politics, and claim to be more successful as a breeder and exhibitor and show trainer, than your non-political counterparts. During your years of Breeding and Showing you can convey the image of success, and superiority, even elitism over your non-political peers. With the added benefit that none of your 'politics' can be proven, and the vast majority of exhibitors only notice your achievements, and contribute to your sense of superiority and success. Your stud dogs get more studs, you easily sell your puppies, and of course you have many more 'top show quality' puppies for sale than your non-political peers. Not many notice how few actually make it, because you can use your well earned political efforts to assist a few borderline cases. When non-political exhibitors give up the sport because of what they can see happening, but cannot do anything about, it makes for less competition which makes it easier to win, and why worry about the fall in the numbers participating in the GSD sport, you can convince yourself and your political friends that the fall in numbers is for many other reasons. All in all an attractive GSD exhibitors experience and you can always tell those non - political exhibitors ITS ALL IN THEIR IMAGINATION

GAIN AN ADVANTAGE FROM A STRICTLY MATHEMATICAL POINT OF VIEW IT GOES LIKE THIS: What makes 100%? What does it mean to give or achieve MORE than 100%? How can you achieve an advantage over others? Ever wonder about these people who say they are giving or achieving MORE than 100%? We have all been to these meetings where someone wants you to give over 100% How about achieving 103% or more? What makes up 100% in life? A MATHEMATICAL FORMULA TO HELP YOU ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS If: A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z is represented as: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26. Then: H A R D W O R K 8+1+18+4+23+15+18+11 = 98% K N O W L E D G E 11+14+15+23+12+5+4+7+5 = 96% But: A T T I T U D E 1+20+20++9+20+21+4+5 = 100% And: B U L L S H I T 2+21+12+12+19+8+9+20 = 103% AND, Look how far ass kissing will take you. A S S K I S S I N G 1+19+19+11+9+19+19+9+14+7 = 118% SO, ONE CAN CONCLUDE WITH MATHEMATICAL CERTAINTY THAT WHILST HARD WORK AND KNOWLEDGE WILL GET YOU CLOSE, AND ATTITUDE WILL GET YOU THERE, IT'S THE BULLSHIT AND THE ASS KISSING THAT WILL GET YOU OVER THE TOP.

Hi, I have no politics working for me and my dog. I live in a remote area in the USA and was encouraged by one of the contributors of this board to contact another. Both have given their commentaries above and have without any consideration of their own Kennels encouraged me to show my dog. I must add that the breeder of my own dog, completely failed me despite advertising a team that would help us develop my show prospect. Living as remote as I do, I could only guess if my dog was any good or not. I love my dogs (I have two) and despite what anyone else thinks of them, they just are my heart and soul. Enough said; I showed my dog the first time under a judge that placed him second of two puppies. So, I could not judge if he was of quality or not. But this judge made a special effort in telling me that with training, my boy could be better. He went further and said if I ever was in Germany, to come to his club and he would try to find people that could help me in show training him as we have so little opportunities in this country and are driving hundreds of miles just to get our dogs trained. This Judge was Erich Boesl. This judge encouraged me and said that he is sure my dog and I will find our way. These were only a few minutes of private conversation, that made me feel really good. My dog had 2nd and also last place, but it was good. And I was proud of my dog and felt good that we were showing. At our second show, which was only a week later, I had the distinct impression that the judge was kept as captive by the club members giving the show. I never got to have a personal word with him. I only saw that he was horrified when someone told me to give my dog poor food so he would not grow anymore. At this show, my puppy got first place and the highest placement he has received to date. At our third show, my puppy got third place and I was so overjoyed because from the place I was hiding and calling him, I could see what a beautiful dog I had. I shed a tear or so and could barely call him. I just could not believe that this gorgeous dog belonged to me. I have found it addicting to be a part of showing because, you simply do not know in advance what the outcome will be. If politics plays a part, it should certainly not stop us from continuing to show our wonderful dogs to one another. How does it advance the breed, if I only show my dog to my neighbor and know that I have a better dog? I showed my puppy also in AKC conformation. And guess what? He got the blue ribbon in front of a very promising AKC Germ. Shepherd pup. There will be alot of dogs that fall at the wayside as we go through training. And what is left, are the dogs that can most closely fit the ideal. If there are politics, don't be discouraged. In the long run the dogs should win that are the best. I know for a fact, that many of the judges that come to us from Germany, are using their free time and vacation time to judge the shows. And I feel these very special and experienced people should be given the respect they deserve. Sunny

It is one man/womans opinion on the day ! Being a Judge is huge responsibility, Having good ethics is a must, being objective and not subjective is not very easy.. Some will always abuse positions of power, thats life, This hobby can become very destructive if you allow it to, it is about making choices, enjoy the breed, enjoy your dog, at the end of the day, they have no idea what this is all about... It is not possible for everyone to go home a "winner" but you do not have to go home a "Loser" either. It is your choice! after all tomorrow is another day.. Solo, Varus is a great dog,better than average I think but variety is the spice of life so let others have their cake and eat it to......

Charisma: I do not have a problem with "variety is the spice of life" or with most of what you state. I have a serioUs problem when FUNDAMENTALS ARE IGNORED and when "the sauce for the goose, IS NOT THE SAUCE FOR THE GANDER"