Putting Drives on top of a nerve base.: Breeders" views? - Page 9

"None, Zero all the way up to the 9th generation."

BE, I gotta agree with Duke, that level of outcrossing seems a bit absurd. Any breeder would be very hard pressed to find any good specimens without SOME common ancestors in 9 generations.

In breeding verses out crossing is accomplished at any level, and perhaps best considered in terms of increases or decreases of heterosis. The tightening or loosening of homozygous pairings. (rather than drawing the line at some arbitrary generation)

When I linebred 2,3-2 on Hutch, I effectively greatly REDUCED the inbreeding coefficient of the resulting litter as compared to the litter's sire, Winchester (who's 1-2 on Hutch). And litter uniformity decreased as well. Basically, it was in effect, an outcross.
 

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/breeding.result?father=2473001&mother=728874

How many breeders are around long enough or work their dogs enough to really fine tune anything down to the level discussed here, almost none?

So long you are backmassing on certain dogs, you are NOT outcrossing!

I'm doing 2-5 on Gildo, that's as close as an outcross I will have without Fero and no Mink and breeding into very old Showlines.

Another  outcross would be going into a pure DDR though there would be some linebreeding on Lord, so it wouldn't be a true outcross, not as I learned it.

If I bred into all the podium dogs I'd get Yoschi, Troll and Fero. It's almost always Yoschi Troll and Fero. And I'd keep on backmassing.

Even now, all the "outcrsses" you are talking about, are not outcrosses because look around. Everyone is breeding into Yoschi, Troll and Fero. These are most sought after linebreedings and almost always what the majority of dogs are backmassed on.

doesnot take many years VK

good to hear something from you daryl, how are those dogs as compared to Hutch himself

I only wish I could reproduce his tractable temperament as faithfully as his prey and defense drives. Even moreso, I could do without the occasional sharp dogs lacking clear headedness. Could maybe blame it all on the maternal side, those Czech lines I outcrossed to. Haha. I am on the large, fairly pleased with my progress.

This is a % most breeders would shrink away from. But I own the dogs for 5 generations on the dam's side and the dogs for 3 generations on the sire side. Good solid dogs. 

          ..................................................................................................................Wright's. Hardiman's
2 - 3 Igrochka Jipo-Me ....................................................................................06.45% .... 10.16%
        ↳3 - 4,5         ↳SG Puci Jipo-Me SVV1
            ↳4 - 5             ↳SG Norbo Ben-Ju 3X WUSV, 3x FCI, SCHH3,IPO3, ZVV2,
            ↳4 - 5             ↳SG Alex z Pisnicky SVV1
        ↳3 - 4         ↳V Mambo z Pohranicni straze ZVV3, IPO3, OP1
            ↳4 - 5             ↳G Qveeny z Dudakova ZVV1
            ↳4 - 5             ↳SG Jupp z Jirkova dvora ZVV1 ................................... Wright's. Hardiman's
5 - 4 G Car z Kostolianskej cesty CS Slovakian Working Champion, SVV3, IPO3 00.39%..... 02.39%
5 - 5 SG Cordon An-Sat ZVV3, IPO3, ZM ................................................................ 00.20%..... 01.71%

Daryl with those lines you dont need to wonder where some nervynes comes from,could call it fallout from the type of dog he is trying to breed, but sharpness is desirable in my book

Desirable for me as well. But, as I said, not without a clear head, and best with a biddable temperament.

And I assure you, any indication of occasional nerve issues does not come from Hutch. Most definitely the czech side.

I can assure you he hutch side produced fair share of nerve issues as well but some czech lines rent free of that also