Sport to LE? Who's done this? - Page 19

Pedigree Database

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by Vito Andolini on 09 November 2018 - 16:11

Ok.
"The sport breeders are breeding for sport."

Explain that. What are they breeding for?

Prager

by Prager on 09 November 2018 - 16:11

@Joan: Now I finally know why you disagree with me so much. You make in your head delusional "Prager"-statements which you then ascribe to me as if they would be real, and then you are disagreeing with them in your posts.

Example:

Can you point me to the post where I say that   type1 dog can't be trained to do anything but bite? 

I do not know why I am still reading your posts.
SMH


by duke1965 on 09 November 2018 - 16:11

vito, to name these pedigrees and dogs on an internet forum would be disrespectfull, but generally when testing dogs with pedigrees, I look at the pedigree first, then test the dog, and 95% of times I get what I expected from looking at the pedigree

secondly, if one mentions a name of a dog that produced 500 plus offspring, there will allways be someon trying to proove you wrong, because they know one of his sons that is a narcdog or so

that is not the point, it is about the larger numbers, and points and training are not reproducing well, and police type dogs dont score points well, generally speaking

if you want to breed police dogs, breed with police material, as simple as that

some dressage line horses may jump, but if you want a jumper, breed from jumper genetics, its that simple


by duke1965 on 09 November 2018 - 16:11

generally speaking

ideal sport dog has high fooddrive, high preydrive, decent posession, must be biddable,must respond well to corection,social

sportdog must not be:

not stubborn, not dominant not overly posessive, not sharp civil,

 

for a streetdog the NOT qualities are desirable, including good preydrive

I know many sport trainers today that cannot and willnot work with dogs with low/no fooddrive, even recently a lady got send away on a seminair, that she drove long distance for and payed a lot, simply because her  dog had no fooddrive and seminair giver was not willing/able to work that dog


Prager

by Prager on 09 November 2018 - 16:11

Joanro in your video

https://youtu.be/PS9Np9fgSsQ

all I see is a pathetically sleeve oriented dog who through channeling is from prey to defense go after the man who tries to steal his sleeve. All this is about sleeve to this dog. I had to laugh when  the trainer was saying make him carry the sleeve orf something like that.  I can show you in 10 seconds that this dog under certain adequate pressure would revert to bite the sleeve in front of him. I can also show you that if you put in front of this dog a 2 to the dog not familiar decoys one with and the second without sleeve the dog will choose the one with the sleeve even though you can point him on a civil decoy until cows come home.  

From this example of yours of "not sleeve happy dog", it is obvious that you have no clue what I am talking about.


Prager

by Prager on 09 November 2018 - 17:11

Haha Duke does not want to be "disrespectful" :) I have to say I agree with his post above. 
Never mind that.
Vito answer to your question is simple. Narrow oriented Sport breeders breed dogs for super crazy prey and as little - preferably no defense and natural protectiveness and territoriality.


by joanro on 09 November 2018 - 17:11

Hans, you can't read dogs well at all...that is what is pathetic. No wonder you don't have anything to show for any litters you ever bred.

 

Under certain pressure, you say?? A puppy? A twelve week old puppy up to now only 12 months old!!! Yeah, I bet you could put some pressure on a puppy...you have made it clear that you don't know how to train. 

How about you post for us, the video of the female you produced/trained 'youself' that you were doing training in a building and told us how CIVIL she is. You had the handler send her at the decoy when he came through the door of adjacent room...only thing is, she did not go to the decoy because there was a sleeve on the floor that she stopped to pick up and play with....I think you called her something like BabyBaby. 


by apple on 09 November 2018 - 17:11

Vito,
I see sport lines as dogs bred for extremes in certain drives and as a working breed a GSD needs more balanced and less extreme drives. Also, dogs that do very well in IPO might be very lacking in the capacity to fight a man because that trait is not required in the sport. I think the sport a dog is breed for is a factor also. Dogs bred for KNPV tend to produce more dogs suitable for street work and within that sport, the points dogs are less suited for real work.

by apple on 09 November 2018 - 17:11

I looked at the video Joanro posted and don't have any comments about the dog, but will share that the young dog I am now training in PSA has had a foundation totally different than any other dog I have trained. The decoy has never really moved and has never made prey movements with the bite wedge except some very subtle tilting of the wedge up and down after the dog is put in a sit of down to establish control while stimulating prey in a minimal way. The dog has not be trained to bark and get worked up in the bite work. When I bring him out and he sees the decoy, he simply comes into drive by hitting the end of the leash, I cap the drive using obedience with a sit or down, give the command to bite, and he has been taught a pushing bite and outs with zero conflict. Strikes and grips are there genetically. To me, the value of this type of dog is that he doesn't have to be brought into a hectic state of mind which allows him to think and learn better, and I can see that the drives are mainly the result of genetics rather than training.

by joanro on 09 November 2018 - 18:11

Apple, the pup in the video is being trained to be titled in SDA/WDA.

But what I was pointing out was the fact that the pup totally ignores the sleeve as when the decoy slipped the sleeve directly in front of the pup...he never so much as glanced at it but kept his focus on the decoy at face level.
And as far as I'm concerned, this pup shows that typical sport training is not squashing the pup's genetic civil tendency.
Btw, each of the sessions are spaced by weeks or months that are seguayed into this video.






 


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