Sweepstakes $ for titling dogs? - Page 2

Blitzen, I wish there were only ethical people in the world but as you know there are people with no ethics in everything we do today. this is a shame and I agree with you on that. I do not think you should attempt to distort the fact that titling dogs before breeding is a good thing, it keeps some of the original characteristics of the breed. How many generations before the Ambreds lost the character to be able to do real work?? How many generations before they lost the temperament intended for the breed?? Not many!! The simple reason is the breeders had no one regulating them and saying you need to remember temperament, drives, courage as well as angulation and movement etc etc. JMHO :-)

I don't think I distorted that, Hundguy. I simply tried to point out that common sense says all titles are not WYSIWYG. Titling is certainly a good thing if it's done ethically, there's that word again. Titling is very beneficial when done the way the sport intends it to be done and the dog gets the title it deserves. Sending dogs off to be titled by trainers who play politics with their judge friends and get titles on dogs that don't deserve them is not going to benefit anyone in the long run. It's counterproductive. Maybe that really doesn't happen? Have I been misinformed? Personally, I would feel a lot more comfortable buying a dog from parents that were titled by an owner or other amateur than one pro titled by a trainer with a questionable reputation. I know all trainers are not politicians, but how can you tell which are and which aren't and which dogs deserve their titles and which dog don't? Maybe the educated breeders recognize those dogs and don't use them at stud? It's no different than those AKC people who only breed from Champions no matter how those titles were earned. I have owned and bred a few AKC champions myself, another breed, some I've handled, some have been professionally handled. I can tell you I am a lot prouder of the ones I finished myself than the ones that I paid a pro to finish. When selecting breeding stock, it's not just what is on the surface, there's a lot more to it than titles alone. A title is a good thing, it's just not the only thing IMO.

Hucklebuck, I tolal agree with you about akc ambreeders. I been coming to this site for long time but ony been register a short time because of site problem they are lot of new member. that are no good for GSD breed. Now I see people with white sherperd. This is what Akc do to this wounder full breed. Yes the akc is not all bad but for most they are all about the $$$$$$. This is my general assumption that most if not all the big working Am bloodline are unworthy.This is my a personal opinion and not a fact But tell me this why does the P.D import there dogs because Am Line can not do the work. when I say Ambreeders I am talking about Ambloodline not a Akc registerfar Dogs. Thanks God for "SV/USCA gov body" . This breed is not for any one this breeds is the one from the no the best breed In the work.

Blitzen, You lost me when you used the word Champions this is word that kill me about the AKC What does it take to be a Champions. Not saying its a bad. Please tell me What does its take be AKC Campion. Schn is a team sport and take Lot of working.

Hucklebuck- <<<>>>>> Who cares if they follow the rules, nobody recognizes it internationally!!! It is an internal award then and a waste of time. As for breeding Ambred junk, no, just you guys need to get off of the make believe high horse. People compete in USCA events with SV judges so the titles will be recognized internationally. USCA is cutting ties with the SV registration and titling of dogs and going to do their own thing. Therefore their papers and titles will be worthless internationally. So why bother with them if they do not recognize WDA SV judge awarded show ratings or schutzhund titles? They are on a course with disaster. They want to be independent from the SV with their own judges etc, these titles and show ratings by their own judges are unrecognized internationally, so why bother then?

Sunshine- <<<>>>> Many of us register dogs from Germany without ever talking to an USCA person. FCI rules, live in USA, must be AKC registered.

Hucklebuck- >>>So let me clarify. My dogs are also AKC registered. However, they are also either SV/USA registered as well. They must be in order to obtain show ratings, titles and koerungs.<<<< No they don not have to be. Ever hear of the WDA? American born, akc, never been usca/sv registered dogs get show ratings, titles and koerungs with them. They are even recognized internationally? Not like the usca judges stuff that nobody recognizes. What are you an USCA Cheerleader or something?

WDA has its own group of "worthless American judges" Try to koer a dog at a WDA Koering whose BH or AD is under one of their own WDA judges, earned at a WDA Trial!!! The politics between the WDA and USCA are about money, power, ego and in first place, the show people joining forces with the GSDCA - who treat them like a bastard stepchild! One one hand, they cannot be acknowledged as AKC approved because bitework is outlawed, but on the other, the illicit connection gives the GSDCA credence with the SV. Look at the 2 websites - the WDA is about show people and show dogs - most of whom go to Germany for titles. A few token trials are held - but most of the current issue of the WDA mag is filled iwth show results, not trial results. The USCA is still mainly folks working dogs in schtuzhund clubs - lots of people titling their own dogs bought as pups. Look at the show/trial results in the most recent mag - and oh, BTW - the WDA is lucky to get out 2 mags a year! Hey - I am a member of both. I perfer the USCA clubs because they actually work their dogs. The WDA club here is about show training and gossiping about whose dog is with what trainer in Germany. Dave

Hi Lathan, To get the AKC title of "Champion" a dog needs to earn 15 points. The number of dogs entered at the show dictates the number of points earned. You just can't take a dog to 15 shows and get 15 points, one at a time, there must also be 2 "major" wins of 3, 4, or 5 points, again the number of points won depends on the number of dogs in competition. Right now, in the east, a GSD must defeat 12 dogs and 15 bitches to get a 3 point major, 17 dogs, 20 bitches for a 4 point major and 25 dogs, 28 bitches for a 5 point major. 5 points is the most that can be won at any one show. There are only 4 placements in each class, so there are no such things as V 5,6 or SG 5, 6 , etc. Only the winners of the 1st placements get to try for the points, and there ar only 2 point winners at each show, one dog, one bitch. There are classes for puppies, Am breds, novice dogs, open dogs. It's a lot harder to earn a Championship title on a GSD if it is not professionally handled. Most who show GSD at AKC shows hire pros. IMO, an AKC Champion would be about the equivilent of a V 1,2,3,4 only based on the conformation and movement part. There are no requirements for a dog to prove itself any way other than it should look good and move correctly and not bite the judge LOL. I am happy to say that a nice German import KKL1, V rated male recently finshed his AKC championship. It's a good thing for AKC people to see a good import just as it can't hurt for the import people to look at an AKC dog like Am. Ch. Kismet's Sight for Sore Eyes, "Dallas". Take an honest, unbiased look at the dog, you won't turn to stone, honest. Just like those who favor the imported lines, most AKC breeders like their dogs a lot better and refuse to even look at an import. Too bad. Not saying they should be bred together, just saying it never hurts to learn and no one can ever know it all.

Look there politics all over, The point is that we need SV hand in U.S the WDA, USCA are better than just the AKC why are talking about people that send there to the mother land of this great breed to be train and title. I for one think that schn training is a Art And need true artis. not that I have send my dogs aways to be train. I think its good not a bad thing. Some schn in U.S would be schn title under Sv judes.