by Lunastar on 13 December 2018 - 18:12
by Hundmutter on 13 December 2018 - 19:12
On the other hand you can get a modern Germanic breeding where the dog is of perfectly sound temperament, and lives to a good age. The dog in my avatar being a case in point - he had solid nerves, was highly trainable (could have gone a lot further, if he had not been saddled with me !), and lived to 12 years. Survived a Bloat; and being run over by a car. Had a perfectly ok digestive system. Never had any of those nagging problems like Anal Fistulas. Had good hips (UK 3:3). Elbows not assessed but not a cause of trouble.
But he was STILL "too much Uran" for my liking, it's a breeding I would have hesitated to do if I'd been the person who planned it.
When you say "most of it on dogs who do not give health or working ability", Sunny, can I suggest you modify that to "some" or even "many", but please not 'most'. I can assure you there were, and are, a lot of dogs like Taz over here; lots of 'top dogs' from German and other European Siegers as part of their pedigrees, but not the stupidly close matings like Fantom lists ...
UK Show breeding is, in the majority, nothing like the sort of breeding exemplified by the Benvillarosa All That Jazz case; and most of the Germanic / International 'side' breeders in particular are only too aware of, care about, and take steps to avoid breeding with the lines that carry epilepsy. They certainly do not condone those breeders who knowingly take those risks. And yes, it is hard to fathom the breeder in that particular case was 'unaware' - in fact I would go so far as to say they were known to be aware, but unconvinced it was a bad mistake to make.
by Sunsilver on 13 December 2018 - 19:12
When its origins have been traced, there's really no excuse for breeders not avoiding these lines!
by Hundmutter on 13 December 2018 - 22:12
Some don't avoid them, though. Our Breed Health Coordinator is only too aware - because she makes a point of tracing the pedigrees back - that people have used up to 200+ lines returning to the dog in question, over the 50 years or so that have elapsed since he was around. The fact that so many of the people are 'breeders' of the money-making 'coats n colours' brigade does not reflect the habits of the vast majority of UK GSD breeders and exhibitors, even though like [everywhere else] those concentrate on Black & Gold - to the almost exclusion of every other non-dilute colour - for the Showring.
Because quite some time has elapsed, I suppose some allowances could be made for early use of the dog. The nature and spread of epilepsy was far less well known and understood at that time. But there has certainly not been any excuse for continuing to use the tainted lines in recent years, except where ignorance leads to people breeding with 'pet' quality stock they have (and seek) no knowledge about the genetic background to. And you can make sure the information is out there, but you cannot make people use it. I suspect that, even had we had more and earlier success in getting the Kennel Club to warn against using such bloodlines, or deal with it in some outright way by banning breeding with affected dogs, the difficulties of dealing with an 'instigator' dog who may himself have had more of the disease in his background IN Germany, and who, while siring fitters, did not actually exhibit seizures himself would have meant that an awful lot of breeding got through the net - including in dogs exported to contribute to the founding of many of the 'white' bloodlines across the world. With epilepsy IN PARTICULAR there has also been a long-standing problem, in dogs as in humans, of the illness being deliberately covered up through embarrassment at the symptoms !
by Hardworkingdawgz on 14 December 2018 - 10:12
by bladeedge on 14 December 2018 - 12:12
by Hardworkingdawgz on 14 December 2018 - 15:12
by Sunsilver on 14 December 2018 - 17:12
by Baerenfangs Erbe on 14 December 2018 - 18:12
by Jessejones on 15 December 2018 - 01:12
Sven vom Grafental/Sindy Schaferliesel seem to have been bred together 3 x!!!
Lots of offspring.
What was the issue here that you know of, Hardworking?
I just now found this thead: